- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
"How has Stein fared as a leader? By AOC’s perfectly reasonable standard, she’s done abysmally. As of July 2024, a mere 143 officeholders in the United States are affiliated with the Green Party. None of them are in statewide or federal offices. In fact, no Green Party candidate has ever won federal office. And Stein’s reign has been a period of indisputable decline, during which time the party’s membership—which peaked in 2004 at 319,000 registered members—has fallen to 234,000 today.
This meager coalition can’t possibly kick-start a legitimate political movement, capable of organizing voters and advancing ideas outside of perennial electoral events. It’s just large enough, however, to spoil the work of those who put in this kind of work."
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Reactionary people are unable to accept that some of us are socialists who have an absolute fear of more orange bad. I love where I live and planned to stay the rest of my life, but will be forced (by my own standards and fear) to leave the country if he returns to office.
Can you imagine if you campaigned against trump half as much as you campaign against progressive parties?
Same can be said about those promoting Jill Stein and other spoiler parties.
Jill Stein is a lot of things, but “progressive” ain’t one of 'em. I’d love for Harris and the Dems to be more progressive, but they’re going to need a better example than Stein.
https://www.jillstein2024.com/platform
Same request for you, which parts of the platform arent progressive
That’s a long list of progressive ideas. Too bad she can’t possibly win in a two party system. I like the assumption that if she did get the office all that would immediately take effect. That’s not how it works. Unfortunate for many of the ideas she lists, but also as a protective measure in case people like Trump get in and sweep what’s left away to put in place a dictatorship. Like he’s promised to do.
So putting away the policy comparisons and party names, and just looking at the math. Can a third party win in an established two party system in a FPTP election? The answer is a simple no. I’d love to see a ranking system in place to allow diversity of opinions have a chance in elections, and there’s a bill right now to do that nationally, by Democrats because they’re the ones that would do well in such a system. Let’s fix the real problem and stop this decades-long third party dream to do the impossible.
And until there’s a grassroots movement and support at the local levels, the Green Party is always going to look like and be the spoiler party, no matter how many nice ideas they have bullet points for.
Here’s a question for you: How many of those Green policies are similar to Harris policies? I saw a few, I just wonder if you realize that you could get some of that stuff done easily with Democrats in all three seats of power. Which we have a chance to do.
I like the assumption that if she did get the office all that would immediately take effect.
Well if youre just gonna flat out lie
No one is going to read that, let alone answer you. See, this is a Stein hate thread, you’ve already lost the game.
(I know nothing about her.)
And while your first point is sound, the buried lede, (the part in parenthesis) is the real point, isn’t it?
dems itt maybe knew her name before the party started smearing her. wonder how many will ever bother to look her up?
Ah yes, the platform of a candidate that does not have a chance at win ing, even by mistake, and can say whatever the fuck they want because of it.
Lets elect them so we can see who’s right
I imagine that most of it is going there, at least if one were to follow the money trail. It’s just that the Green party is so much smaller, so a few bits of afterthought saber rattling hurt them a lot worse than a much larger spend (by the Dems) against the GOP hurts the GOP.
Can you imagine if Jill Stein was progressive? Yeah me neither…
https://www.jillstein2024.com/platform
Can you point what parts of the platform arent progressive?
Man the anti-stein crowd cant tolerate the most basic of questions
OP pointed a big red arrow at Stein’s stated beliefs, there’s your answer. Anything to say except, “Nuh uh!”?
I dont believe there is a single stated belief from Stein in the entire article
What bills has Stein passed?
Ah its that darn work experience required but how do you get work experience paradox.
By this logic we should never elect new politicians.
Or if for policies popular with a wide swath of America? Naw. I believe what MSNBC and all the real adults in the room agree with:
Our party should ebrace moderate Republicans! Smear the greens! Keep
leftistspoiler parties off the ballot! Dismiss Dem party dissidents as traitors and foreign assets! This is what real leftists do. All leftists to the left of me are actually to the right.I would know, i’m a Democrat, and I’m as left as they come
Oh, yeah, me too, I am a very far left lefty. That’s why when it comes to elections I ignore groups like Uncommitted and instead vote how the furthest right group wants lefties to vote.
Haha! I see and appreciate what you’re doing here. Well-crafted.
A party that might get 1% of the vote represents a “wide swath of America” more than a party that gets >50% ?
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Let’s talk about the issue at hand. Do you think pulling support for Israel to appease 1-5% of the voter base would have no consequences when it comes to voters who want to support Israel?
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Your argument, so you go first: Which widely popular policy is the Democratic Party not endorsing, and can you cite a measurement of how popular it is?
Ahhhhhhhh so your claim isnt real.
You’re not gonna back your claims up… And i don’t care to speak with somebody who won’t.
Your argument is spurious. without a link. I already told you before, there is a minimum QoC i expect in my discussions, a minimum you refuse to reach.
So flip me off (pretty much what you’ve been up to this whole time) and get gone
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https://newrepublic.com/article/186004/green-jill-stein-2024-election
The Green Party is dying! Save it SB!
Didn’t you hear? @[email protected] “isn’t even voting for Jill Stein.”
You win, as he used your prediction. 😆
He does respect your right to vote for whoever you want though!
Yes, thank you for realizing that I do respect and support your rights to vote for whoever you want. As do I. Thank you for the shout out!
Whooosshhhhh
Lemmy Whooosshhhhh is best Whooosshhhhh
I’m not voting for her.
If you have issues with the article, you can take it up with the people who wrote it. Thanks, friend!
I don’t have issues with the article and I’m not voting for her. Thanks, friend! :)
Was the Green party ever alive? I don’t think so.
Did well enough to stop lots of nuclear from getting built. God, they suck.
I liked Nader, and there were a few candidates inbetween before Stein took it over for good. But now even Nader isn’t for Stein…
It makes total sense for Russia to make Jill Stein a Russian asset because it neutralizes an anti-oil organization. Oil is very important to Russia’s economy so of course they don’t want any phase-out of fossil fuels.
It’s much more simple. If Trump wins, Russia gets the Ukraine. Putin put the war in motion thinking Trump was a sure bet last election.
It why Trump is trying to pull us out of all our treaties. I think he gives Putin a run at all of Europe possibly.
theUkraineEdit: Found the Russian 😆 3/1
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“Useful idiot” is probably more accurate than “asset”. Even AOC doesn’t go that far…
ITT: Blue MAGA and preaching to the choir.
Dr. Jill Stein has improved the Green Party; y’all just believe anything the duopoly and owner-class media spit out when it agrees with your thinking.
Muslim support is at an all-time high for Dr. Jill Stein; that is why AOCPelosi, the new attack dog of Blue MAGA, started up again.
I suggest getting out of the echo chambers and checking out independent journalists instead of continuing the self-censorship.
Dr. Jill Stein has improved the Green Party; y’all just believe anything the duopoly and owner-class media spit out when it agrees with your thinking.
In what ways, alongside the one point mentioned, and according to what sources (presumably not from the party itself)?
Lol people believe shit like this
Oh jeez is that why Nader is voting the way he says he is?
Is bLuE mAgA in the room with you right now?
BlueMAGA mentality infests society like mosquitoes and roaches
Kind of like tankies, who long for violence and suffering
Liberals commit social murder daily and you want to go on about violence and suffering.
Low wages is violence, no affordable housing is violence, income inequality is violence, social inequality is violence, for profit healthcare is violence.
Do you see the trend? Violence isn’t just physical, it’s also mental, and economic.
When people say you twist words, this is what they mean.
“Murder” and “Violence” have well accepted meanings - redefining them to mean “anything that doesn’t line up with fringe-left communist ideals” is a propaganda tactic.
Yeah sure anything you need to not feel bloodthirsty, buddy. Something something both sides. Maybe if you ever spoke to another human being irl you would not be like this
Is ad hominem all you got?
LiBeUlS bAD all you got?
Dehumanizing people …not a good look.
BlueMAGA is an ideology not a person
Oh it’s our resident “independent journalism” guy who seems to post nothing but far-right podcasts.
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled.
~Aldous Huxley
Wow! Never read that quote. Perfectly explains how American politics got to be such a mess. I laugh at all the revolutionary talk around here.
material comforts
Yeah, no, we’re so well-fed we have to find excuses for our rampant obesity. There won’t be a revolution until people are literally fighting for food and our masters will never allow that to come to pass. Look at lemmy, bitching and moaning about video game prices and such. We’re pretty fucking far from lacking material comforts. To add, a lot of people think they’re suffering, but haven’t seen a day of true poverty in their lives. Y’all, you’re suffering in comparison to what could and should be.
cherished beliefs
As fast as we in the West are dropping religion, notice the politicians haven’t done anything about the rampant sex abuse? Taxing the church? Unheard of! Let the masses have their silly beliefs, stick to the middle of the road if you must, get elected again.
Blue MAGA is not real
They are and they call you a nazi for saying free palestine or saying anything remotely negative about any democrat ever
Edit but also the guy you’re replying to is dumb, wtf do they mean by AOCPelosi? They hate eachother xD
AOC would never hate “Mama Bear!”
They are absolutely not. I’m voting Democratic all the way down the ticket this year and I will say all day that Biden needs to cut the crap with his support for Israel (while also mentioning Trump has been accused of illegally contacting Israel to sabotage the ceasefire deals). Lots of people I know share this exact opinion. Your argument is a strawman.
You and your friends not being that doesn’t mean they’re not real. A lot of democrats will call you a Chinese spy for suggesting that Biden or other democrats could do better on Israel, and to them even remotely questioning whether we should be blindly VBNMWing for all eternity makes you a nazi who’s trying to get trump elected. Blue maga is real, and their existence and the fact all other democrats deny they exist is gonna get Trump elected 100x faster than trying to make democrats more electable and less genocidal. I promise you the moment trump dies, I never vote blue again unless yall get your shit together and stop trying to be almost as far right and and blindly fanatical and genocidal as republicans (slight edit bc I was being kinda hyperbolic on how many dems are magalike)
What other lies would you like to spread?
It’s as real as MAGA, but MAGA knows it’s batshit crazy
Yeah so trump supporters are clearly better than lIBeRuLs
They are garbage too
Everyone is garbage unless they believe in your shitty version of communism or whatever
It’s not, and thinking that way does not make you enlightened, it makes you completely unable to comprehend the facts
It’s a two party system. Everybody knows if you run as a third party you’re merely increasing the chances that the ones furthest from you politically will be elected.
It’s impossible for a third party candidate to be running for president in the US in good faith unless they’re complete fucking idiots with no idea how the political system works.
Jill Stein knows how the system works. So obviously she’s not acting in good faith.
Simple as that.
Everybody capable of rational thought knows that. However there are plenty of tankie douchebags who would love to tell you what a wrong ShItLiB you are for saying this basic truth
Seems like you beat the coin flip today, and people agree with you. Watch out, next time the Libertarians and Communists will tell you that just getting on the ballot is enough to make a dent in the two party system…
It’s a thread about the Green Party, those trolls don’t bother coming here. The third party enthusiasts only show up for the Harris threads.
…speaking of good faith.
Guys as soon as we’ve got 5% popular vote we get on the ballots automatically. That prevents unavoidable blockers like how our own campaign fucked up the paperwork! It will be all over for these fuckers, we will win it for certain after that.
The communist party of the United States has consistently refused to run candidates for major offices very specifically to avoid spoiling the vote.
The Communist Party, yes. The air-quote Communists on Lemmy are just as happy to tell you to vote third party as anyone else.
Oh yeah the kind who will do anything so long as it won’t help
That’s the best summary possible
I am a leftist and I celebrate everyone’s right to vote how they please. If people would like to hear my reasons for voting for Kamala, or my concerns about third party spoiling, I can tell them. But a person’s right to vote is more important to me than how they vote. That’s what democracy and being for the people is about. Use your rights, I support that. We all deserve to use our rights.
I’m not sure you could be more milquetoast if you tried. Sure, it’s important that everyone has the right to vote. It is equally as important that everyone understand that unless they vote one of two ways, their vote is essentially going to waste at best, and going against their best interests at worse. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote cast against your closest aligned Democrat or Republican candidate. A vote not cast for them is cast against them. That’s just the way the system works. It sucks. I hate it. I want to change it, but wishful thinking isn’t fixing the problem, and until its fixed, voting third party is a net loss for the voter. That’s the shitty reality of it. People that tell you to vote third party are either idiots, or malicious, and no one should be listening to either of those groups when it comes to voting for the future of the country. Work on changing the system first, then cast the vote you want to cast.
It’s not “equally important.” No, the right to vote is more important. Period.
Sure, your perspective and how you and many others view this election, is that it’s important to vote for either Kamala or Trump. But that’s your perspective. Totally fine to discuss but it doesn’t supercede the literal civil right to vote. Or to run for office.
Today and yesterday, I’ve seen people advocate for removing the right to vote and run for office here on Lemmy. I’ve seen people use the word “disenfranchised” wrong. Our civil rights are actively in jeopardy - see: abortion access. People being confused on how important voting rights are and what that means is BAD. I have seen a LOT of fascist rhetoric lately. It is NOT leftwing or radical or progressive to be fascist and deny people their vote just because you dislike it. It is NOT leftwing or radical or progressive to deny people the right to run for office because it makes another party’s job harder. That is actually literally fascism. What the fuck.
And again, I’m voting for Kamala. I generally agree with your reasoning. I do not agree with the messaging or the idea that people should be forced into thinking and voting like me.
Totally fine to discuss but it doesn’t supersedes the literal civil right to vote. Or to run for office.
By that logic, the right to own a gun supersedes the need to be educated on how they work. “Here’s a loaded 9mm, Timmy. I’m sure you can figure the rest out.”
I do not agree with the messaging or the idea that people should be forced into thinking and voting like me.
And I’m not saying that anyone should be forced to vote any one way. Vote however you want, but being educated on how it works is just as important as the act itself. If every voter were educated on the system and understood how it worked, then we wouldn’t have third party candidates. Actually, strike that, we would have them. We wouldn’t have this first past the post bullshit we do now, and third party candidates would have a chance at being elected if they represent the will of the majority.
Untl we have that, though, people should understand that voting doesn’t work how they want it to, it works how it works. If you want to feed your family by fishing with cheetos, go for it, but don’t tell everyone else that if we all fish with cheetos suddenly fish will take the bait. The nature of the beast is that we vote in a two party system, and we will until we change it at a fundamental level. The fact that we have people saying that third party voting is a viable option tells me that there is a lot of misinformation and a strong lack of education in our voting populace.
What an insufferable position and way of arguing for it. To anyone reading this thread, she only gets worse with each reply. She’s arguing for… Literally Everything necessarily taking a backseat to protecting people from even the mere concept of them feeling like their voting rights are taken away. Despite the fact that no one in this thread is trying to do that, and only Republicans are ever interested in such a thing, she’s really oddly interested in making sure people vote for third parties, which helps Republicans, without ever hearing the truth about third parties because it might hurt their feelings. Which as we all know, is definitely taking their voting rights away.
She undoubtedly will point out some out of context quote about how the rational person in this discussion is a fAsCisT but each time she did that previously in the thread below, she wasn’t doing it in good faith so you be the judge.
You realize your strawman here is a bad faith argument? In fact, I actually can’t find a single good faith argument in anything you’ve written. You start out with an appeal to emotion. Then strawman. Then no true scotsman. Then strawman. Then strawman. Then strawman. Also we all know you’re the “”“rational”“” other person on an alt account. You type the same and it’s been days since anyone responded to this thread. Lol.
I am voting for Kamala and I’m perfectly happy to tell people why. Maybe people will agree with me and that’s great. Otherwise, I still support someone’s right to vote no matter how they vote. Because that’s what a right is, and that’s what the right to vote grants. I disagree with any speech that advocates for limiting the right to vote, particularly because I’m a woman and women’s rights are being taken away actively.
I also think that while yes, obviously Jill Stein is a Russian asset, that doesn’t mean every independent or third party candidate is. I am on the side of the every day person and am fine with hearing criticisms of Dems and of the way we currently vote.
I will point out any speech that is a dog whistle to eroding our rights, though. I’ve quoted the specific issues with what you said. I don’t really need to say more. I accept you think it’s fine to control others. I accept that you refuse to learn about civil rights and the right to vote. I accept that you refuse to analyze propaganda and dog whistles in your speech. Whatever, it’s your opinion. I also think your little comment serves as an advertisement anyway for any people reading this thread besides you, lol.
Quite conspiratorial to think I’m that other person… do you do that? Why would you even think that people would go through the trouble? Weird.
I will point out any speech that is a dog whistle to eroding our rights, though.
More conspiratorial thinking. in any case it’s pretty ridiculous to try and tell someone they shouldn’t inform people about third parties because they might get their feelings hurt and then… Feel unable to vote or something?
Yea… though President Debs would have been excellent.
There’s room for 3rd party candidates who have principals that voters can compare candidates to and not let the 2 party system shift in whatever direction it wants as soon as the 2 parties start racing to the bottom. But if you accept Putin’s money and influence it is your party who is racing to the bottom and you have no principles so that’s when you become a useless drain.
Your party should have done better, it’s as simple as that.
How well has your party done though?
That doesnt matter. Mine doesn’t advocate for the genocide of brown people, they don’t talk mitigating climate change while accelerating it.
Are you specifying brown people because of Ukraine?
Could we please focus on Rampart, I mean, Gaza…
You won’t get through to the Putin shills. No matter how much the ruble tanks, they’re in it for the long haul
Wait, which party are you saying does advocate for genocide?
The both do
Can you link to a statement advocating for it?
Genocide denial, which is what Democrats are actively engaging in, is advocating for it.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4862241-harris-palestinian-activists-israel-gaza/
The Green Party is mostly a joke anyway.
Unless dems and reps cheat. Green party is doing better this election simply because Harris is a drug Barron, and Trump is a shiester. This article is their windbags blowing because people aren’t gobbling up their plates of human shit and voting for it… What comes next is gonna blow some peoples minds(figuratively ofcourse).
I hate myself already for asking. But uh, what’s going to come next?
Next is Sumguy takes his evening meds and goes to sleep.
Liberals are desperate to smear any threat to their existence and power. Watching it reminds me of Southerners that were desperate to cling to their ‘heritage’ of hate and bigotry. They didn’t see it as hate and bigotry, but everyone else paying attention did
Tankies are desperate for any reason to pretend their ideas aren’t trash
The comment above you was quite harsh, so if you wanna respond harshly, I say go for it. But please include at least one example or reason or detail. If the only thing you can do is ad hominem, it’s boring.
Stupid reasoning. Read both comments. They have the same structure. If one is an ad hominem attack, then so is the other one
What gave you the idea that the world owes you entertainment?
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Green / Red…can’t ell the difference when you’re colorblind.
She’s going to spoil the election for Harris libs! There’s nothing you can do about it, except stop your genocide is Gaza.
Such commitment to the bit! Love how you encapsulated the sheer ignorance and downright avoidance of reality of typical leftists here in just a few short sentences!
You’ve got a career in comedy ahead of you!
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If there’s such a fear of third parties cleaving off votes from the Democrats, why have they never tried to mobilize similar forces on the right?
We had the Libertarians right there, before they imploded.
Because Democrats are honestly bad at their jobs. I can’t come to any other conclusion - whether it’s intentional or just basic incompetence, I’m not sure. There’s no Mitch McConnell Dem equivalent, including Nancy Pelosi. The current Supreme Court justice mess is due to Dem strategy fuckups on multiple levels.
The Republican party saw it happening and absorbed it. Groups like the Tea Party were a very real threat to Republican party candidacy in elections. They absorbed the groups and shifted more right to integrate them.
The Democrat leadership however aren’t willing to actually shift left. They current Dem leadership aren’t actually radically left at all like the Republicans keep trying to convince people. They keep shifting right along with everything else taking the Overton window with them.
The teabagger (their original name) thing was started by Republicans.
Because people on the left are mostly younger and they won’t vote no matter what you promise them, even if it’s everything that they want to be promised.
