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“With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.”
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Is there a good article out there with highlights of the interview? I feel like this would merit its own post, it’s an amazing watch and very important to see for those still considering Stein a legitimate option.
https://zeteo.com/p/exclusive-mehdi-interviews-jill-stein?utm_campaign=post
For those that don’t want to give Elon fucking muskrat a click. Fuck Twitter.
Edit: never mind it’s a preview… So fucking important but we need to pay him to see it.
Jill Stein doesn’t know how many members of the House there are in Congress. 600?!?!
There is a 100% chance that Trump couldn’t name how many members there are in the house. I’d be shocked if he could list the branches of government without help.
note I’m not saying that’s acceptable. But if that’s your test for “is this a serious candidate” I hate to be the bearer of bad news…
That’s interesting.
My brain’s first answer was 435, then I took 538 and subtracted the 100 senators and got to 438.
But that’s including the 3 from DC I think, so back to 435? Gonna look this up.
Edit: 435, must’ve been DC.
Shitlibs love to be parrots for the DNC, eating up whatever shit they spew out their asses to stay in power. Yeah, the green party and Stein are the baddies, not the genocidal, warmongering democrats who don’t give a shit about Americans 🙄
Tell me a flagship green policy of hers, if you can find it.
There’s a reason it’s called the Green New Deal:
The first U.S. politician to run on a Green New Deal platform was Howie Hawkins of the Green Partywhen he ran for governor of New York in 2010. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Steinran on a Green New Deal platform in 2012 and 2016.
So why do I have to read that on wikipedia instead of their website? Where is their green new deal plan, their manifesto? Varoufakis has been pushing one, this has been a thing in Europe for a long, long time.
The Green New Deal is part of their 2024 platform.
I’d love for this person to highlight even one thing outside of running for president every few years, that Jill Stein has done to forward climate activism or help stop the endless wars.
New Republic - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for New Republic:
MBFC: Left - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
https://newrepublic.com/article/186004/green-jill-stein-2024-election
I am by inclination Green, but I live in Europe where the Greens have been through their scandals and emerged somewhat presentable. I don’t believe that is the case in the US, where the Greens and particularly Jill Stein are basically just useful idiots. They disrupt the candidates most aligned to their own cause. And in Stein’s case, she’s disrupts her own damned country.
The people have killed the green party in the womb.
It’s true. Where the hell does the green party matter? I’m not saying this is how it should be, but it’s how it is.
Isn’t that like accusing the maggots of killing the corpse?
Trump is gunna win and it will be your fault libs. Just like the first time. You ain’t going to be able to spin your way out of this.
Genocidal Democrats are crashing out this election.
Who needs party membership when you have unlimited money cheat code from daddy Putin?
And the republican billionaires who think you will spoil races.
What makes you think a politically irrelevant person like Stein would capture the attention of putin?
Oh hey wow who put that picture here.
Jill Stein is both a terrible candidate and possibly a Russian agent. Even if I do align with much of the green parties stances and I live in a solidly blue state, I would never vote for her out of principle
then you are effectively falling right in line with the lies the DNC sold you since the “russian agent” theory is easily debunked after 5 seconds of googling.
I am more concerned with her lack of knowledge on any policy, to be honest with you
Indeed. I might vote for some Greens down-ballot, but Stein is a stain on the party and its cause
I see a lot of anti Stein rhetoric lately I understand the push to not let her drag the ticket from Kamala but I wonder how much is true and how much is news trying to sway my opinion
edit; Imagine asking a reasonable question in 2024 lol
Note that I went to her own platform page and that was enough for me to be a hard pass even if I went worried about Trump and even I never heard anything from anyone about her.
The deal breakers for me were:
- Disband NATO.
- Stop material support of Ukraine
There’s a bit more I find to be problematic, but those are sufficient.
NATO isn’t giving you ranked choice voting and healthcare
So why are disbanding NATO and stopping aid to Ukraine even policy positions of hers? Shouldn’t she be focused on ranked choice voting and healthcare instead?
NATO is the extension of neoliberal imperialism:
Beginning in 1991, U.S. strategy would seek to entrench that position, arresting the historical process of Eurasian integration. For Brzezinski, Ukraine was an “important space on the Eurasian chessboard”—critical in tempering Russia’s “deeply ingrained desire for a special Eurasian role.” The United States, Brzezinski wrote, would not only pursue its geostrategic goals in the former Soviet Union but also represent “its own growing economic interest…in gaining unlimited access to this hitherto closed area.”18
That project would be realized in part through NATO. The alliance’s expansion coincided with the creeping spread of neoliberalism, helping secure the dominance of U.S. financial capital and sustain the rapacious military-industrial complex that underpins much of its economy and society.19 The umbilical bond between NATO membership and neoliberalism was expressed clearly by leading Atlanticists throughout the alliance’s eastward march. On March 25, 1997, at a conference of the Euro-Atlantic Association held at Warsaw University, Joe Biden, then a senator, outlined the conditions for Poland’s accession to NATO. “All NATO member states have free-market economies with the private sector playing a leading role,” he said.
On the ranked choice voting, she wouldn’t give you that anyways. Here’s a clue, Alaska has RCV already. The president doesn’t get to pick how the states run their elections. The place to push for RCV is at the state level.
On healthcare, you’d need congress. There’s not even a whiff of that being a possibility, even less than Stein presidency. That’s a general issue with her platform that there’s very little “how” in how she could actually do anything, and much that isn’t even theory under the authority of the federal government, let alone the office of the president.
Also, more directly related to your original point, disbanding NATO and withdrawing support from Ukraine get us exactly 0% closer to either of those goals as well. They just show that Stein is an unserious politician with extremely specific opinions on NATO and Ukraine for reasons I’m sure are unrelated to her funding.
You actually bring up an excellent point here – the Green Party should be throwing everything they have at places with RCV. Yet, they’re not. Those are the perfect races for them to win, and they don’t give a shit.
How much do you hear about the Green Party OTHER than the presidential election? That should tell you quite a bit.
That’s because corporate media has a vested interest in not covering them. Their membership has stayed the same since about 2011
Could it be because they currently exist only as a spoiler party for the presidential election? The media doesn’t have a vested interest in not covering them, that’s republican “fake news” talk. Media LOVES conflict.
It seems that way because the Greens operate on a local and state level between presidential elections, by design:
The success of the 2000 Nader campaign had an ironic backlash among progressives – some on the left faulted Nader and the Green Party for the defeat of Democrat Al Gore. In 2004, the Greens nominated attorney David Cobb for president and labor activist Pat LaMarche for vice president. Cobb, a longtime Green leader, pledged to use the presidential campaign primarily to build the party. His campaign’s goals included increasing Green Party membership, helping local candidates and initiatives, and creating state and local chapters where they did not yet exist.
Cobb also felt that Greens should emphasize the need for Instant Runoff Voting, and that if there were a relatively “progressive” Democratic candidate, most Green resources should be focused on those states where the Electoral College votes are not “in play” (which is most states). He saw this as necessary for Greens to appeal to a broad swath of the population.
The media chooses to not cover the Greens, Libertarians, Constitutionalists, the Working Families Party, or any socialist parties because that would give them credibility and undermine the capitalist controlled two-party message.
I am not defending the Green Party. I will not vote for them. But the narrative that is being pushed to suppress third party support is detrimental to democracy.
You’ve proved the point then. If Cobb’s strategy was followed, the Greens would be in a far better position.
Stein has been a known Russian asset and Democratic spoiler candidate for about a decade now, being “Green” has never actually had anything to do with her political goals.
I would suggest you do your own research, but she’s run several times, has no real experience or qualifications, and has been shown multiple times to be benefiting (either knowingly or unknowingly) from both GOP operatives and Russian interference.
Personally I fully support third parties - if they do more than just show up as spoilers every four years. Jill Stein has been doing zilch to push the Green Party forward except in presidential election years. And as a result she’s doing more harm to folks who want more options than not.
You’re seeing anti-Stein rhetoric lately because it’s a Presidential election year and that’s the only time the Green party tries to be visible.
I’m sure the two or three Green people at the local level believe in the party’s stated platform, but at the higher level it absolutely looks like the party exists only to siphon votes away from the Democratic party.
It’s because she’s strong on issues that Harris is weak on…especially the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Stein agrees with the majority of the Democrats: we should quit funding the genocide. Harris wants to continue funding it.
Even if you assume she isn’t a bad faith actor, she’s still objectively failed to pass the one thing the world needs, the Green New Deal, and environmentalism is in the worst shape it’s been in decades.
That’s not all her fault, but her protest candidacy weirdness put Trump in office the first time instead of spending that time and effort on actual policy so…
Fuck off already?
Haha oh really. It had nothing to do with Hilary being the worst candidate ever? The authoritarian electoral college founded to preserve slavery? The rampant voter suppression by Republicans that Democrats refuse to stop. It was all her fault huh?
All her fault, no, but if she was a real progressive she would have learned a lesson and made a play for a lower office. But it’s very clear that’s not what she’s being paid to do.
Certainly if she has been trying to effect real change in a realistic way, rather than an egocentric impossible run at the presidency…
Things would have been different. She was one of many straws, which if subtracted, would have prevented trump
So for that and that alone, she and the rest of the greens can fuck right off.
See the No Labels folks for a more common sense way to be activist on national level politics.
Greens would be great if they would focus on good, winnable races from the bottom up…
What that called again?? Uhh ‘grass roots’
She funded an investigations that showed Hilary had won a state that went to Donald Trump. But sure it’s her that doesn’t care about democracy not the Democrats that rolled over on not one but two elections where they likely won.
I’ll agree that Dems have given up way too easily, mostly based on naive “for the good of the country” white knighting.
It probably didn’t start with Al Gore and the hanging chads, but that would have been a good time to realize that sometimes these fights are existential
Doesn’t change the fact that Stein is currently a russian-funded spoiler and she’s a drag on the Greens and does great disservice to all of the non-major parties.
I hope No Labels and other serious ‘third paries’ spend time focusing on voting reform like RCV or similar. Of course, many nerds will (probably correctly) claim that RCV is flawed in whatever way and we should try to move to some other even more complicated system. And then nothing will happen and we will continue to be stuck in a bi-party system with smaller factions only ever having the opportunity to act as spoilers in national or even state-wide races.
Is she really responsible for the problems of the US Green party?
As near as I can tell the EU Green parties had a different trajectory. They initially started winning seats in parliaments on purely environmental platforms. Those MPs actually started pushing green agendas in various parliaments. That, in turn led to more people voting for them. Eventually that had to adopt policy positions beyond the environment and they tended to be pretty left.
The US never had Green party members in a position where they could actually do anything useful about the environment. That means they could never fulfill their primary goal in the US. So when they tried to branch out the same way the EU Green parties did, they just turned into a vague hodgepodge of leftists ideas.
Is there any suggestion that Jill Stein’s replacement would have any chance of saving the US Green party?
The Green party is doing exactly what it was designed to do. It’s siphoning off eco-conscious Democratic voters just significantly enough to affect voting margins but not enough to win. To be clear I’m not saying that Even a significant number of people in the green party have that as a goal, but top down, that’s all it’s about.
We are a two-party system and they are allowing the green party to exist to use it as a wedge.
Then I guess y’all should starting reworking how your system works, because it doesn’t sound like a democracy at all if you can’t vote for what you actually believe in.
We would, but as it stands now it’s an authoritarian dictatorship, right wing hellscape, and a marginally awful moderate right wing dystopia in a trench coat and they’re not about to cede any distance to allowing us new liberties.
If we don’t get at least a 60% margin there’s a really good chance the guy that said this will be the last time you ever have to vote, I’m going to be a dictator on day one and I’m going to imprison all of the opponents, legislators and donors that went against me.
Outside of an actual moderate or left-wing coup which is pretty much impossible I don’t see there’s any way that this country is getting out of this.
Agreed, but while we’re working on that in multiple avenues, we still need to vote for the harm reduction choice.
I’ll say that I sort of despise Fairvote.
They lie about RCV pretty much all the time.
The system has more problems than First Past the Post, and still doesn’t fix the third party problem.
No, a far better system is STAR. It actually fixes the problems that it sets out to fix.
America has what I like to call ‘Monkey’s Paw Democracy’; almost as if someone wished for a representative Government from a cursed object.
Now instead of voting for policies they like, voters are forced to vote against policies they dislike or risk being punished my having their rights slowly chipped away.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
Hahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahah. You’re hilarious!
Right?!
Someone should inform the Whigs
It would be nice but you’d have to go back to 1850 because we eradicated them and made sure it couldn’t happen again.
The issue is she sucks all the oxygen out of the room with her pointless presidential runs and does nothing for the four years in between. There’s an inconsequential number of Greens who run and win elections in small cities and towns or less consequential elections, and none of them have won any federal elections. A real party leader would recruit and foster candidates in large cities and state legislatures— and then get folks to run for the US House, the Senate, state governorships, and then the presidency.
Stein is less a party leader and more a figurehead who basically seems to be in it for the grift. And so US Greens (especially in comparison to those in the EU) are less a party and more just a convenient label for those of a certain bent that want to run as something other than as a Democrat.
My question was more along the lines of the “(not so) the great (wo)man” hypothesis.
Let’s imagine that Jill Stein was permanently abducted by aliens. What do we think would happen?
Would the Green Party just collapse?
Would the former member just join the Democrats?
Would they start a new party?
Or maybe someone new would take over who could do a better job?
I think we’d likely just get someone who’s functionally equivalent.Ah, I get your question now. Unfortunately I think it’s impossible to say, but I do know it’s impossible to find out while she’s still there.
Maybe vote count is instructive:
Nader 2000: 2,882,955
Cobb 2004: 119,859
McKinney 2008: 161,797
Stein 2012: 469,501
Stein 2016: 1,457,216
Hawkins 2020: 407,068
I don’t think the party would collapse without Stein. They have been around for decades and they have a cadre of oranizers who will continue to show up regardless of results. Stein is just the most famous person they can use for a presidential election, and you can see from the above results what happens when they run someone nobody has heard of.
I think they genuinely believe in their core values, and it’s unfortunate that Stein is their only viable candidate. They won’t ever be a real political party until they start winning local/state elections, but they’re looking to secure more federal funding by getting enough votes. If Stein disappeared then they would keep doing this but they’d never breach half a million votes. Maybe a progressive democrat in the House would smell an opportunity and break ranks to run for president with the Greens. That could maybe get them a million or two votes again.
Or maybe it absolutely does not matter who they run and they just get a lot of votes when the Democrats run particularly shitty candidates for president.
In terms of her affect on the Green party, those numbers make it look like she’s fairly run-of-the-mill. Her first one was low and later on she posted numbers similar to more famous candidates.
I did a quick search on where those candidates are and it seems that many of potential Green party candidates are in swing states. It also looks like many of them are specifically siding with them because of their stance on Gaza.
That suggests that she’s just fine for the Greens and is likely even helping them. She’s a problem for Democrats because there’s an assumption that those voters would switch to the Democratic ticket if they don’t vote Green.
Right. If democrats want those votes then Biden needs to make significant progress on ending the genocide now. The threat from third parties exerts an outsize pressure on the Democrats to actually do something. But of course they likely won’t, and instead Trump will take advantage of this.
I don’t think it would even have to go that far.
It’s mostly that Harris needs to be able to present credible red lines. Right now, the perception is that Israel can get away with absolutely anything.
Anything to break that perception it might be enough. A light version might be something like, “Every time X happens, we’ll delay weapons shipments by a week while we investigate.” That’s not much and it might not even change Israel’s behavior but I suspect that just articulating some policy and sticking to it would be sufficient.
Nader 2004: 465,650
Nader wasn’t even the Green candidate in 2004. Nader ran as an independent in 2004.
That year the Green Party ran David Cobb, who got 119,859 votes, putting him behind the Constitution Party, the Libertarian Party, and the independent Ralph Nader.
In 2008, Nader ran again as an independent and beat the Green Party once again, with 739,034 votes, versus McKinney’s 162k. In between were the Libertarians in fourth place, and the Constitution Party in fifth place.
The Green Party has never even come in third place, and several times hasn’t even come in fifth place, in our two party system.
My mistake, thanks
Ive been thinking more and more that the only way forward for the green party may just be to pic a few states and focus on local races. Get control over city councils and some mayoralships. Hell, a green caucus in state houses could actually do some good
If they were a serious political party. But that would require you to believe that they are wildly incompetent and being supported for that incompetence. Rather than they’re doing this intentionally. Not seriously running to win or improve anything. But being a divisive spectacle to destroy solidarity on the left.
Sam Seder has been saying rhis for a decade at this point.
Its how you build a political movement.
Funny, I just heard him bring it up in a clip. Glad I’m not the oblyone thinking this, means I’m not completely crazy. Could a political party operate a community grocery “store” with campaign funds?
I remember in the late 90s the Green Party in my district was on a roll, culminating in the election of a member to the California State Assembly (one of the highest posts ever held by the Greens in the US). Then came Nader’s presidential bid and its perceived role in the election of Bush, which permanently crippled the legitimacy of the local party. They’re still doing great work with voter guides, legislative analysis, etc.; but they’ll never escape the shadow of Nader and Stein.
I think the only viable path for a third party now is to start a new one from scratch, and disavow presidential bids from the outset.
This is how the Tea Party and MAGA co-opted the Republicans, and it’s the model progressives should use to move the needle in the Democratic party (and they have, with some success).
If progressives want to see change, progressives need to vote. In every election. General or primary.
The fact that they’re not doing that but just going straight for an unwinnable Presidential election tells you a lot.
They do. Council seats, school boards, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_politicians_who_have_held_office_in_the_United_States
Federal officials
As of 2023, no nominee of the Green Party has been elected to office in the federal government.
State officials
As of 2024, 8 Greens have held state-level office. However, only 3 were elected or re-elected as Greens.
As of 2024, no Greens currently hold state-level office.
Four current Mayors are listed, though only one “ran as green”. Seventeen Greens are in city and county councils.
Here’s their list, if you’re curious.
I post this not to endorse Jill Stein, but rather because I wanted to see the info for myself so that I could understand what they consider an “elected position”.
Thanks
Thats cool, etc
Yeah, to be relevant they need to win some elections in large cities and state legislatures. That would be the base necessary to start winning congressional seats and then work up from there. Because the Jill Stein narcissism tour every four years is clearly doing more harm than good.
And it would be the best thing in the world for the Dems. They need cogent and real opposition and right now they’re just running against crazies - which is important, but doesn’t do much for establishing an agenda. A functional Green Party would actually help pull the Dems back more to the left.
You can also vote the Democratic primaries, too.
That worked out, suprisingly well, for Sanders. Think about how much change you could affect voting for Sanderses at every level.
The best part of running for a state legislature or congressional position is that they could team with democrats to block the GOP, so unlike the presidential election you aren’t voting against your interest for electing a third party.
Those races are also FPTP so they do risk the same spoiler effect. Maybe it would do for a deep blue area?
I’m searching around and something like CA-12 was 90% Biden. Candidates could split that like five or six ways and still not have any danger of a Repub.
I don’t think there are any state level positions that would accommodate that. Even Vermont is only D+16, so the third party is a larger risk.
Seeing the disrepair the Republicans have left the south in, I wonder if there is room to do a grass roots campaign in more red areas with a focus of charity and community service? “We are here to help. No, we are not Dems” might work in Louisiana or Alabama
Probably, but that would require the Greens to be competent.
I actually think that would work. Campaign on: Charity, Community, and Clean Environment.
There are some parts of the US where they are not first-past-the-post.
- Alaska - uses top 4 primary + ranked choice general
- Maine - uses ranked choice voting
- California & Washington - use a top-two primary
The Greens could effectively run in those places, as well as races where the Democrats aren’t running a candidate.
But when I see them running for local office, they’re basically running to be on the ballot, not mounting a serious effort to win.
Says quite a bit that Greens aren’t even doing much in California or Washington.
