Have been keeping half an eye on framework laptops as a potential next daily driver as and when I’m ready for one.

Just wondering what people’s experience of using them on linux has been, particularly nixos

I’m assuming all the drivers are in the kernel given the way the company is

Have been using a 2016 thinkpad for the past year or so and have had a decent experience with it, with the way lenovo have gone with their newer thinkpads it seems like framework is now the best for maintainability/upgradability

(not planning to upgrade in the immediate future as this machine is doing fine, but frameworks are a strong contender in my mind right now and I’m curious as to people’s experience)

  • @festus@lemmy.ca
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    210 months ago

    I have a 12th gen Intel Framework running Arch. I love it, although as others have pointed out the battery life could be better. Early kernels shortly after release had some incompatibility issues that required specific kernel arguments to fix. Also I had to blacklist the light sensor as it conflicted with the brightness function keys.

    The Arch wiki has a page with details on Framework laptops you may appreciate looking at.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      210 months ago

      How long would you say a charge normally lasts, apologies for the profiling but I’m assuming you tend to work at a terminal more if on arch rather than loads of heavy electron apps?

      • @festus@lemmy.ca
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        210 months ago

        That’s hard for me to answer because I’m usually at home plugged in, and I set the max charge in the bios to only 65% so the battery will physically degrade slower (I don’t need the charge). A few hours is really all I can say with any accuracy. Worth noting a few things -

        1. Since I bought my laptop they came out with an improved battery I could upgrade to, so you’d get a better experience.
        2. I believe(?) battery life is improved a fair bit at least with the AMD ones; less sure on the newer Intel ones.

        I will say that if long battery life is your #1 concern this may not be the laptop for you.

        • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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          210 months ago

          Not number one concern but I need it to survive long enough that I’m not just permanently plugging in everywhere I go

          Not as bad if it’s usb c charge I’ll have to check that

  • @Contramuffin@lemmy.world
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    410 months ago

    Kubuntu on Framework 16 AMD 7000 series here. Sleep is horrible - definitely drains your battery. Bag heats up, and I estimate maybe a 1% drain per hour. I’ve enabled hibernate though I rarely use it.

    Battery is alright but not great. I get maybe 2-3 hours of active, light use from full battery.

    No compatibility issues that I’ve noticed, though, of course, Linux has its fair share of minor non-hardware-related bugs.

    Camera is serviceable but not amazing. Not sure about microphone but I assume the same thing. Speakers are somewhat odd in that the speakers are pointed to the side rather than toward the front, but again - serviceable.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      210 months ago

      Have you tried it much without the GPU? I imagine that would cut down battery usage by a lot right?

      Camera mic and speakers are not a deal-breaker especially as they’re upgradable from what I understand

      • @Contramuffin@lemmy.world
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        210 months ago

        Yes, I don’t use the external GPU. I just use the AMD APU. Also I realized that AMD 7000 could refer to both the cpu and the GPU. Ah, AMD and their marketing

        • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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          10 months ago

          Hmmm 3 hours battery is definitely a major downside, given it charges off usb c less of an issue but still

          Was actually considering getting one of those copilot pcs once the Linux support catches up, supposedly people are charging those things once a week or so

          • @Contramuffin@lemmy.world
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            110 months ago

            My understanding is that Arm chips don’t have any fundamental advantage over x86 chips. They’re more efficient simply because they’ve been optimized to be more efficient for so long. I’ve heard that upcoming Intel and AMD chips could be able to compete with the new Arm cpu’s, so if you’re not going to get a new laptop soon, it seems worthwhile to just wait and see

            • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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              110 months ago

              Not planning to give up on the trusty ThinkPad soon anyway

              So far the evidence I’ve seen has been overwhelmingly that arm chips are way more power efficient

              People say it makes no difference but I’ve yet to see an x86 device come close to the arm ones battery wise, seems like a strange coincidence

              • @Contramuffin@lemmy.world
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                110 months ago

                Yes, but that’s my point, you see. Because Arm historically has been used for mobile and small devices, there’s been a strong incentive for decades to emphasize power efficiency. Because x86 historically has been used for desktops, there’s been a strong incentive to emphasize power. It’s only been very recently that Arm attempted to have comparable power, and even more recently that x86 attempted to have comparable power efficiency.

                Sure, Arm is currently more efficient, but the general consensus is that there’s no inherent reason for why Arm must be more efficient than x86. In other words, the only reason it is more efficient is just because they’ve been focusing on efficiency for longer.

                Both AMD and Intel’s current gen x86 cpu’s are, from what I can tell, basically spitting distance away from Qualcomm’s Arm cpu’s in terms of battery life, and rumor has it that both x86 companies should be able to match Arm chips in efficiency by next gen.

                So if efficiency is a priority for you, I think it’s worthwhile to wait and see what the cpu companies cook up in the next couple of years, especially as both AMD and Intel seem to be heavily focused on maximizing efficiency right now

                • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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                  110 months ago

                  Interesting, is the CPU upgradeable on the framework? Could be nice to replace that later down the line when those come out

          • @Contramuffin@lemmy.world
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            110 months ago

            Just tested with normal power profile and screen brightness turned down - battery went down by about 50% after 3 hours. I think my laptop usually dies after 3 hours because I have the screen brightness up

            • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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              110 months ago

              What’s the brightness like and in what country if you don’t mind me asking?

              Tend to have my current laptop on full brightness all the time otherwise I can’t see anything, and I live in a generally pretty dark country

              • @Contramuffin@lemmy.world
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                110 months ago

                I mainly do work indoors, so the brightness does not really matter that much to me. But as far as I can tell, the brightness is pretty normal for laptops - I don’t think it’s any brighter or dimmer than other laptops I’ve used in the past. According to this website that I found, brightness is 25 to 486 nits. Google search seems to say that average maximum brightness for laptops is somewhere around 300-400 nits.

                My understanding is that the screen is generally what eats up most of the battery on device, so if you plan to have brightness turned up, it might be difficult to find a laptop with a long battery life.

  • @nxn@biglemmowski.win
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    310 months ago

    11th gen Intel Framework 13 and using Pop_OS. I have many USB related annoyances. For example, when I’m using their USB-A expansion cards that they state support USB 3.2 Gen 2 I am unable to get more than 30MB/s. If I use the same device but through a USB-A to USB-C adapter and a USB-C expansion card I see 500-800MB/s.

    I also have some weird issue where USB devices sometimes just don’t show up when plugged in, or if I boot with them plugged in. Re-inserting the device usually fixes it. I was assuming it might have been a hardware problem at first, but it happens on every port regardless of what device it is regardless of if it’s through a USB-A or USB-C card. Not sure what’s going on or how to really go about debugging issues like this.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      310 months ago

      Sounds like some kind of hardware fault, have you got in touch with them about it?

      I don’t really care about usb transfer speeds, that random disconnecting sounds like an issue though.

      • @nxn@biglemmowski.win
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        110 months ago

        To clarify it doesn’t get disconnected. It just periodically doesn’t recognize that a storage device got plugged in or, alternatively, that there was one plugged in at the time that the laptop was powered on.

        But no, I haven’t contacted them about it yet. I need to first check if there’s any dmesg/journalctl events happening that might be worth following up on before contacting support. Primarily because I don’t recall having any issues like that when I had Windows installed so I’m not convinced yet that it is a hardware fault.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      210 months ago

      Fantastic, how long have you had it for out of curiosity since you said you got it recently? I’m also wondering as to the longevity of these laptops

      • @mortalic@lemmy.world
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        310 months ago

        My batch shipped a month or so ago. But the other posts in your thread kinda give you an idea of longevity. Seems like someone else has one from the first batch and it’s still going.

  • @HyperlinkYourHeart@lemmy.ml
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    510 months ago

    I’m running Fedora on my Framework 13 - works great, no issues. I have only had it open to install the RAM so far, but it appears to be as upgradeable and repairable as advertised. Looks great, feels premium, nice and light. Not great battery life is my only complaint, but there are larger batteries available for the 13 since I bought mine.

  • @kaedon@slrpnk.net
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    510 months ago

    I’ve been running KDE-debian for 1.5 years on my amd framework with no issues (fingerprint sensor worked after installing some software). Can’t say anything for nixos though.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      210 months ago

      Fantastic, no issues with sleep or anything? Everyone else seems to say the sleep mode battery drain is huge

      (planning to do sleep then hibernate anyway, or maybe just hibernate and not even bother with sleep)

  • nickwitha_k (he/him)
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    310 months ago

    I’ve got a 16 without dGPU currently. Running Fedora Silverblue after a bad experience trying out NixOS. Battery life could be better but, it’s been pretty awesome and flawless so far. I’ve barely started my tinkering on it since I have a ton of other projects but, I’m really enjoying it and do recommend.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      210 months ago

      Ouch if nixos doesn’t work well that’s a deal-breaker, what were the issues and how long ago? Other people seem to have had decent experiences with it

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)
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        310 months ago

        Oh. The problem wasn’t the hardware. Don’t let my experience dissuade you, especially if you already know and like NixOS. It was the NixOS docs and my unfamiliarity with Nix/NixOS. Following the official docs gave me an install that worked perfectly but had no networking. I might give it another go once the docs are more mature but the experience and need of a DSL left a bad taste in my mouth.

        • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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          210 months ago

          Ahh I see ok makes more sense

          Already got thousands of lines of nix config so not about to hop distro lol

          • nickwitha_k (he/him)
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            110 months ago

            Yeah. You shouldn’t have an issue then - all of the nix stuff worked as it was supposed. Really a documentation problem more than anything.

  • @FrodoSpark@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    My Framework 13 AMD works great on Zorin, as well as most distros I’ve played around with. Can’t say anything for NixOS though. There is a script they have you run to install/auto update the OEM kernel. I have also noticed battery drain in sleep though.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      210 months ago

      Seems to be a pretty common complaint, you’d hope they would’ve fixed that given how many people seem to be having that issue

  • Dekkia
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    110 months ago

    I have a 11th gen Intel Framework 13 running PopOS.

    Everything is fine except the bug feature with the rechargeable CHMOS battery. On my model it only charges when the laptop is charging. (They changed that behavior in all later model afaik)

    Since I use my laptop only sporadically I can’t just pick it up and use it right away because that battery is always empty. When it’s empty the power button doesn’t work even when the main battery is fully charged.

      • Dekkia
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        19 months ago

        It’s a coin-cell battery. Traditionally it was used to keep the memory that stores the bios-settings and the real-time-clock powered when the PC was turned off.

        By now the bios settings are stored ona different kind of memory, so it doesn’t need power when turned off.

        But the rtc still needs power when the laptop is off as well as other stuff (for example the circuitry that makes the power-button work)

        In the framework it’s also rechargeable, so you can’t just swap it for a cheap one from the store once it runs out.

        • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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          9 months ago

          I mean that seems like a better way to do it, I’m assuming these things last for years by the fact I’ve never had to replace one or even know about it

          How is it only charging when plugged in an issue if it lasts longer than the laptop’s own battery

          I guess if you don’t use it for long enough it depletes while powered off

          • Dekkia
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            9 months ago

            The battery lasts about a mont in that laptop and gets worse quickly over time when not regularly charged.

            I’m not sure if the short runtime is caused by the design-decision of using a rechargeable battery or a big power-draw from it.

            For me this is also the first laptop that ever had an issue like that. Even my decade old thinkpad is still on its first CMOS battery.

  • @BitSound@lemmy.world
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    1410 months ago

    Sleep kind of sucks on the original 11th gen hardware. They pushed out a bios update that broke S3 sleep, so now all you’ve got is the s2idle version, which the kernel is only OK at. Your laptop bag might heat up. S3 breaking isn’t really their fault, Intel deprecated it. Still annoying though. I’ve heard the Chromebook version and other newer gens have better sleep support.

    Other than that, it’s great. NixOS runs just fine, even the fingerprint reader works, which has been rare for Linux

    • @stealth_cookies@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      Pretty much all my sleep/suspend issues with Linux went away when I switched to Manjaro from Fedora on my 11th gen Framework 13. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but the majority of the time I can open my laptop after a couple days and still have most of my battery.

      • @BitSound@lemmy.world
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        110 months ago

        What kernel are you running? From what I understand, that should be the major differentiator if you’re not using S3.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      610 months ago

      I can live with that, my thinkpad won’t sleep properly at the moment anyway (I’ve taken to just running systemctl hibernate before closing the lid, I should probably set that to the default behaviour instead of suspend at some point)

      • @dingdongitsabear@lemmy.ml
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        210 months ago

        you should enable suspend-then-hibernate instead. laptop suspends normally and if not woken in, say, an hour, the RTC hibernates it to disk.

        • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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          210 months ago

          Doesn’t work, I’ve already spent ages trying to get this to work properly and have basically just given up at this point.

          I don’t mind waiting for it to recover from hibernation, I only hibernate it once or twice a day anyway

          • @dingdongitsabear@lemmy.ml
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            110 months ago

            not to trample on your experiences, but you can make it work. it’s true it’s super cumbersome and involved though.

            I’ve had/got it working on a T420s, T480s, T14, MBPr 2012, on debian, fedora, and arch. it helps if it’s not your primary/only workstation so you can tweak it without pressure. keep at it, it’s worth it, I can’t imagine using my laptops any other way.

            maybe do I write-up one of these days.

            • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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              110 months ago

              I’m not doubting it’s possible but with the combination of my hardware and the fact I’m on nixos it proved to be too much trial and error, too many options to try and too much time to iterate as I needed to reboot every time it didn’t work

      • @BitSound@lemmy.world
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        110 months ago

        Couldn’t tell you unfortunately. It looks like AMD is also on board with deprecating S3 sleep, so I would guess that it’s not significantly better. The kernel controls the newer standby modes, so it’s really going to depend on how well it’s supported there.

    • @SurpriZe@lemm.ee
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      110 months ago

      Do you know how to make the fingerprint reader work on my newly purchased Carbon X1 Gen 6 with Ubuntu on it? I’ve gone to great lengths to make it work but still haven’t found a solution

  • @Meltrax@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I’ve had a 13in for like 2 years now? Running Fedora KDE.

    Software-wise, it is nearly flawless. Linux always has some gimmicks but the Framework experience has been on par with a Dell XPS 13 that I have also run Fedora on in the past.

    Hardware-wise, also been pretty nice. Battery life is ok, not amazing. I broke the screen on a trip one time - I bought a replacement from the website and did the maintenance myself to put the new one in. Not going to lie, that felt pretty awesome (and I’ve built many high complexity desktops in the past). Fixing your own laptop isn’t something you can usually do.

    The touch pad is currently haven’t some issues, so I’ll replace that too eventually.

    Quirks: Touch pad responsiveness was never excellent but certainly serviceable. The 4:3 screen ratio is odd to some people, though I personally really enjoy it.

    At this point I can’t picture myself going back to laptops I can’t repair myself. It has been a breath of fresh air. If you care less about that and want just the best Linux experience on a high end machine, Dell XPS might still be the one, but Framework comes very close in my opinion.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      210 months ago

      I’m a big fan of being able to fix stuff myself, XPSes I’ve heard are very good but I also like the idea of being able to just upgrade the CPU GPU and memory later on when it starts to slow down and not have to buy a whole new laptop

  • Everett
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    110 months ago

    I have the Framework 13 and am currently running the COSMIC alpha on Pop!_OS. I love my current setup, but have tried Fedora Kinoite as well, and also had a great experience. Apart from running a few commands to get the fingerprint reader working, I haven’t really had to troubleshoot anything. Its been a solid experience from Day 1.

  • @techyporcupine@discuss.tchncs.de
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    10 months ago

    I have a Framework 13 with the Ryzen 7640U. I absolutely love it! When I first got it, it had a really weird issue where alternating lines on the screen went black for a quarter of a second randomly, but I contacted support and got a new display and it’s been great! The fingerprint sensor is amazing. I have the config from nixos-hardware for whatever improvements that adds, and it’s been working well! I get pretty good battery life for it being an X86 laptop too. You do have to remember to configure the regulatory domain if you get the AMD one or else you’ll be stuck with 2.4GHz wifi! The archwiki page for Framework has instructions!

  • @snek_boi@lemmy.ml
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    410 months ago

    My brother has a Framework 13 and mainly uses a combination of NixOS and Windows. Most of the time he uses NixOS, but sometimes the software he needs is broken on Nix. When that happens, he reverts to a previous version of Nix or he boots onto Windows. He has Windows installed in one of the external-drive socket thingies that he keeps plugged in at all times in case he needs Windows.

    Apart from the occasional broken Nix package, he has had issues with the hyper-sensitive two-finger scrolling in Gnome (which I would say is not directly a Framework or Nix problem). Also, a while back, when I bought the computer with him, we bought Oloy RAM because it was fast and cheap, but that lead to weird crashes. Framework support helped us test the sticks and eventually we sold those sticks and got the Framework-tested Crucial sticks, which solved the problem. Finally, I remember he had to be careful about not just closing the laptop but actually clicking “sleep” and then closing it, because otherwise it would get super hot and lose a lot of battery.

    Despite these struggles, he recently told my Mac-loving girlfriend that he will not get a “disposable” computer. I take this to mean he will keep using his Framework laptop.

    • @flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
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      110 months ago

      I imagine the broken packages thing are less about the framework itself, he’s probably using discord or other electron stuff right?

      I’ve found when an electron package gets marked as insecure it takes everyone a while to update to the secure one

      The clicking sleep thing is interesting one but at the moment I’m doing something very similar anyway