TLDR:
Windows 11 v24H2 and beyond will have Recall installed on every system. Attempting to remove Recall will now break some file explorer features such as tabs.
YT Video (5min)
Might be a stupid question but this requires a NPU right? I told some fellas about it and there response was something like does not matter because they have older hardware so it can’t run anyway. So what happens to win 11 PCs with no NPU?
AFAIK Windows 11 requires TPM 2.0, which in and of itself limits hardware ('cos who cares about ewaste, right?), but am unaware of anything hardware-specific for “AI”.
Your PC needs the following minimum system requirements for Recall:
- A Copilot+ PC
That links to https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/copilot-plus-pcs#faq1
Copilot+ PCs are a new class of Windows 11 AI PCs that are powered by a turbocharged neural processing unit (NPU) – a specialised computer chip for AI-intensive processes like real-time translations and image generation – that can perform more than 40 trillion operations per second (TOPS).
So what happens when a win 11 PC with no NPU gets updated to the version of windows with recall and recall is installed? Does it just sit dormant like it’s deactivated because there are tons of win 11 PC that have no NPU.
It probably does, like Cortana after they deactivated the servers.
You couldn’t remove it for a good while, so there was a gap where it would be stuck there.
I assume that’s what happens, but you know what happens when you do that!
turbocharged
I wonder where the exhaust fumes come from for the turbocharger. How many cylinders do you think the engine of an average Copilot+ PC have? How much extra torque can they get out of it?
Fuck idiotic marketing, words have meaning.
This one annoys me almost as much as “overdrive.” And Intel was guilty of that one, back in the 90’s.
That word does not mean what everyone thinks it means…
So just the Surface thingies?
There’s Dell, HP, Lenovo and Samsung laptops too: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/copilot-plus-pcs
So they’re expanding… still seems to be not all that much hardware support, weird that they’re pushing it so soon.
Recall was the headline feature for Copilot+ PCs.
When a wave of ARM powered Windows laptops, and now a few desktops launched, they were all Copilot+ for whatever reason. They all marketed the NPU, but struggled to really say what the NPU unlocked that you couldn’t do with a CPU or GPU. Other marketing gimmicks were a better background blur and an AI drawing assistant in I think paint. I think you could also do “AI stuff” in photos, but don’t think that was local.
Honestly, I think everyone missed the punchline on ARM. The promise is lower heat and greater battery life. There was no need to bundle that with AI gimmicks. But clearly a PM thought so and now they’re trying to save face. Really taking advantage of ARM and pushing for battery life, by optimizing the kernal and changing what happens in standby, would probably be a bigger engineering lift.
/Thoughts from a rando who bought an ARM powered Windows laptop and generally likes it but has never touched the NPU enabled stuff
The promise is lower heat and greater battery life. There was no need to bundle that with AI gimmicks.
But how else are you gonna bring down battery life to be on par with x86?
/s
Recall does not utilize NPU, people got it running on pre X Elite Arm PCs.
Fuuuuuck…well…my laptop was my last windows device. It came with 11 installed, and the only reason I keep using 11 is because I have had no success in running my DAW in wine. Guess it’s time to give it a go again…
If DAW means Digital Audio Workstation, have you tried Ardour?
I’ve been using Fruityloops for over 20 years. I’ve tried loads of stuff, but my workflow is pretty stuck in the FL ecosystem. I haven’t tried Ardour yet, definitely willing to give it a go, but when I’m in the mood to punch something out really quick, I already know all the keybinds, how things interact etc etc. I’ve started using Sunvox a bit. It’s a modular synth/tracker runs one everything shy of an actual potato…I think doom is the only thing I know about that runs on more systems than Sunvox. But it’s painful when I want to just diddle something quick that’s stuck in my head.
Depending on how long ago that was, you may have a much better experience. Linux now has a new audio subsystem that is low latency, and generally just works out of the box with DAW’s now.
FL studio is known to work well in wine, but third party VSTs can be hit or miss.
FL studio has “worked well in wine” for ages now, I’ve never managed to get it properly functioning. Like I said, I’ll give it another try, not willing to have recall running on my machines.
Fl does work with wine, I have used versions of it in the past quite flawlessly. There is an easy one click installer in the bottles interface for FL, give it a try!
EDIT: I say prior versions because I have since switched to bitwig, such a cool process flow!
Like I replied to someone else FL has been “running well in wine” for ages now. I’ve just never managed to get it functioning at all, like I wasn’t having audio issues or anything…because the one click wouldn’t work for me, and manually setting it never worked for me either. It’s been about 2 years now since I tried, and this recall bullshit means that if I can’t get it running I’ll just switch to something else and change my workflow.
What the actual fuck, microsoft?
“We’re entitled to everything to do, every scrap of data, everything you create, so we can feed our AI to make even more money, because you are
making the mistake ofusing our product. If someone does hack our systems and steals all your data, who fucking cares? You aren’t me. I still get paid.”-Microsuck execs.
🤑 Marketing for the marketing god! Data for the data throne!
Warhammer was close, but the grim dark was way off
grim
darkdankI’m just waiting for the grimdrip. I need new styles.
Can’t wait for those plasteel chinos.
This is absolutely insane
My condolences to all Windows 11 users.It’s becoming common knowledge that:
- It’s not a matter of if but when will xyz service/application be breached and what are the potential damages it could do to me and others?
"I assume every online service is not if; it’s when is it going to be breached? Right? So I operate under that assumption, that everything is going to be breached at some point. And so that’s why Recall was so scary to me where it’s like, I don’t care how secure they say it is, like you look at Spectre and Meltdown no one thought these things were going to affect millions of CPUs and here we are, right?
- Steve from Gamers Nexus
[Level1Techs] Microsoft Is KILLING Windows | ft. Steve @GamersNexus
I guess I just have to keep Windows 10 with a custom group policy that disables all updates either forever or until I learn Linux.
Linux gaming is getting to the point that I could consider the switch, but I hear scary stories about Nvidia drivers.
Nvidia drivers are the reason I end up going back to windows every time. Once installed they work fine, but installation and updating were always fraught with issues, and would inevitably break and piss me off to the point I gave up and went back to windows.
Haven’t tried since I got my amd card, but maybe Nvidia Linux drivers are less terrible than they had been.
Worst thing is you may have to learn downgrade commands on PopOS if a game breaks with driver updates.
I made the switch with my old 1080ti the newer GPUs work even better and mine has given me almost 0 issues with Linux mint. It’s worth the dive. Mint also “just works” so it’s super easy to get into from Windows.
I had no issues with Nvidia. PopOs has support for Nvidia on install…I used it and it worked
I had minor issues when I first installed, but I worked them all out.
Install and give it a week. Seven days. If you can’t get it all figured out by then head back to windows. If you can figure it out, you probably won’t go back.
Running EndeavourOS with Nvidia on Wayland for some months now. Prior to 555 it was a bit janky at times. Since then, and now with 560, the only issue I’m having is related to sleep/hibernation mode. Game wise everything runs fine.
As others have already pointed out Nvidia drivers aren’t that bad. The only game I’ve had issues with is Star Wars Outlaws, but I think that has more to do with the game itself than Nvidia drivers (It’s not exactly a stable experience on Windows either).
The only big thing holding Linux gaming back is anti-cheat, but that’s mostly because AAA developers don’t want to allow anti-cheat on Linux. It’s worth checking out if your favorite online game can be played on Linux.
I guess it depends on what you do, but as an awerage user - not really much to learn in terms of Linux. No special knowledge needed to use it like a normal person. I had to reformat some drives so Linux can use them and learning about Heroic games launcher, Lutris and Bottles to run non-steam games and windows software amd learn about compatibility layer built into Steam.
Otherwise it just works. Using Linux Mint. Didn’t boot to Windows pretty much since I installed it - there was no need.
It may have been the case in the past but Ive used both the GTX 680 and RTX 3060 on Fedora with no issue whatsoever. I have veen using the nvidia peoprietary drivers and they work well.
If you have a new NVIDIA GPU (Turing+), you can use the new open kernel module. If you have older ones, I guess you’re stuck with the proprietary or bad unofficial open source ones. The open kernel module works good and gets the job done. No need to be afraid of it. I get over 1000fps in (optimized) minecraft with shaders. I couldn’t do that in windows.
Which GPU do you have? I’m looking for an upgrade and those framerates make me drool.
GeForce RTX 4070 Mobile
Turing +, not tuner +
done
I use Garuda and NVIDIA gives me no troubles
I moved to Linux Mint after a brief stint with Manjaro. I don’t prefer the Cinnamon interface, but gaming has been perfect. Bottles, allows me to install GOG Galaxy and the games run. I even modded Skyrim using a manual process and a ton of animation mods, that worked alright a lot of times with Vortex ( for the most part).
Linux can handle NTFS partitions, and just take a small line to fix if they are open during a crash. Flatpak software is really stable to install and keep installed.
I haven’t yet had a problem with steam games.
The only problem I have is with streaming services forcing Windows usage, so I got a VPN and raised the Jolly Roger to watch streaming services.
My 3080 plays games fine, and the few times it got a little slow I rebooted and it all worked fine. Discord calls and Twitch work fine. I even take my VA Online appointments with no issues.
It’s closer to going back to Windows 7 or XP, with a decent free office software.
You can run Windows in virtual machine, you know.
It would be the best if you could have dedicated GPU for it, to be able to run games with nearly 100% performance.
Try a Live USB and find out for yourself if your distro of choice plays nice with your rig. You could have your answer in an hour or so of following YouTube tutorials.
I’ve had no significant driver issues with Mint and a 2080, myself. I switched back in February, and most things – games included – just work. The few that didn’t, were easy to fix with some searching on stackoverflow and reddit (about the only thing that site is good for now).
if an idiot like me can do it, so can you.
Nvidia drivers are mostly OK now.
EndeavourOS (Arch-based) works fantastic with latest Nvidia drivers, for me
Including for sleep and hibernate? Those are what I’ve run into issues with with EndeavourOS and Garuda with my NVIDIA gpu
Hmm I never use hibernate but sleep seems fine for me
I have a GTX 1080 and I’ve been gaming on Linux for over a year now. No issues. Only thing that you cant do is some of the new generation window managers (wayland) but even that is working well in the nvidia drivers that arent on stable yet. In any case, the previous generations window managers work great and if wayland doesnt work properly for you, you can just as easily do without it.
Point is, its worth it to make the switch. I set my partner up with Linux Mint when their machine didnt qualify for windows updates anymore and they’ve had no problems, games and all. And they would never touch the command line.
Would recommend
hey GTX1080 user! Have you been able to get any games running with RTX? I picked mine up used a while back, and I kinda stopped PC gaming ages ago, but it’d be nice to use these features if I could. I haven’t been able to get RTX Portal or RTX Quake 2 to work right via Steam, so i figured the card/drivers just can’t handle it and I should just play vanilla DOOM instead.
My understanding is the 1080 predated the RTX stuff by a generation, even when I was on Windows I don’t think the Nvidia drivers for the 1080 supported RTX well, if at all
Correct.
I still have a 1080Ti in one machine and it definitely does not support RTX of any stripe, on any OS.
Yep same with PoPOS. Great little distro. It’s been my daily driver for years now.
Thank goodness for Linux.
Switched a few months ago and glad I did
After all the fud and opposition they’ve pushed against it over the years. It’s nice to see them finally do things to help it.
Quick edit to add that it couldn’t come at a better time now that there are companies like system 76 out there. Making Linux compatible systems that ship with Linux that you can actually recommend to someone who is a novice to pick up. They may be on a more expensive side. But what’s your privacy worth?
Privacy, security, intellectual property
After all the fud and opposition they’ve pushed against it over the years.
what did they do?? i havent heard of this before damn
They did PR campaigns against Linux and OpenOffice for quite some time – until cloud computing took off and it turned out they could earn more money by supporting Linux than by fighting it.
In fact, Microsoft weren’t happy about FOSS in general. I can still remember when they tried to make “shared source” a thing: They made their own ersatz OSI with its own set of licenses, some of which didn’t grant proper reuse rights – like only allowing you to use the source code to write Windows applications.
Owned a system 76 unit years ago. Was lacking in the QC area.
I switched to a Framework 13 after having a system76 Darter Pro, and it’s a whole other league. Incredibly well-built, feels great, runs great, flashy as hell, even the fingerprint reader works out of the box with Fedora KDE.
I’m sudoing in the terminal with my fingers! It’s magic! And it just works!
Also, I managed to drop it in the most stupid way so it bent the whole case, and I could get it fixed for 200 EUR, one day shipping and 20 minutes of work by myself, and that was a full casing swap, so bottom assembly plus keyboard assembly, whole case but the mobo and the stuff on it.
This is what having a laptop should work like. That’s what they took from you.
Their laptops are built on third party chassis. I have their keyboard and that thing is SOLID. I expect their desktops (that are custom made) are also quite solid.
Laptops… I’d lean frame.work if you know your way around a Linux installer. That said, there are rumors that system76 is working on a custom laptop chassis (still, framework is hard to beat for modularity).
Edit: while not specifically QC related… I suspect the things that aren’t really custom built for them might not get the same level of care/might be more on their supplier depending on the issue.
Also have their keyboard and its amazing. I’ll be doing the same, System76 Desktop and Framework Laptop for my next upgrades.
I build my own desktops, but they do sell their case individually. I’ll definitely be considering that for my next upgrade.
I have a Gazelle12 from 2018 and it’s chassis is dogshit, but when I did my research before purchasing I saw a lot of reviews. They all pointed out that the case was made of flimsy plastic, so I was aware ahead of time of that potential problem. The Oryx Pro was the next Model up for several hundreds more, though. Ultimately, I am happy with my laptop even if I have to disassemble it just to repair the chassis with epoxy periodically. It’s 6 years later and the specs are still more than adequate for 99% of my needs, except for my specific intel processor which isn’t supported by Win11. I consider that a feature as oppose to a problem. The software bloat and planned obsolessence through slowdowns of software on Windows based computers are things I do not miss one bit.
They have since changed their model lineup and I bet the build quality on the other models today aee much better then the Gazelle of 2018.
IIRC Framework can preinstall fedora for you since it’s officially supported. I use Fedora on an AMD Framework 13 and its been very smooth. Even the fingerprint sensor works.
EDIT: They will not install linux for unfortunately but it is still supported
But what’s your privacy worth?
I think society has shown us time and time again over several decades that the answer to that question is “not a God damned thing”.
A few cents per gigabyte ackshually.
I won’t upgrade past 10 anyways and if I can’t run 10, back to Linux I go.
You’ve got until late 2025 before 10 stops receiving security updates. I would not stay long after that.
I will be SO glad when my Windows 10 stops getting forced updates.
Well, yes, but no
But yes, Im pretty sure my little server I use explicitly for jellyfin will be fine
But yes, Im pretty sure my little server I use explicitly for jellyfin will be fine
I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use Linux for that. You can make some arguments against Linux on the desktop (although I don’t agree) but Linux as a server has been clearly superior for a long time.
Why would I use Linux for something that doesn’t require it?
Because it will run jellyfin, with fewer system resources, and still get security updates (that you can configure to auto install at the correct time) for … free.
You also won’t at some point find yourself running such an old version of Windows that jellyfin no longer updates unless you buy the latest version of Windows.
You can just go download Ubuntu desktop LTS and do everything by just opening a terminal, plopping that one liner, and letting it run: https://jellyfin.org/docs/general/installation/linux/#repository-automatic
I’ll flip the script and ask “why in the world would you use Windows for something that doesn’t require it?”
MIT license:
Explore a beautiful Windows-first design. Manage all your files with increased productivity. Work across multiple folders with tabs. And so much more.
It looks nice, and has extra features like tabs, tagging 7zip/archive management, cloud drives, git integration, comparing file hashes, etc.
The only issue I had was performance, it took a long time to start each time. I’m planning on trying it again sometime later
Whoa. I wonder if explorer can be ripped out entirely and replace with this
explorer.exeis still used for desktop and probably other stuff as well, so it might not be possible without using 3rd party shell replacement and not many exist.
The companies will do anything to make having the ai capacities built locally an acceptable thing via “cool” features like this or apples, and I think it is because once the devices can do the processing locally, it allows them to stop processing it themselves on their servers. This will also allow them to use microphone and why not camera data as additional data points without having to send and process the actual microphone data. The only local software is open source AI implementations that are being used by FOSS applications, with no network access.
To me this isn’t about shareholder value and buzzwords, this is just the excuse to shove it into the OS. It’s a more long term game they are playing: the one of reducing their costs and improving the value/accuracy of the data that they get, since it will be pre-digested 100% locally in the background, which is not limited by network latency and bandwidth.
What happens if you copy explorer.exe from a prior release of Windows and replace the recall-infested version?
At that point why bother? Either accept it and move on, or axe the partition and start browsing forums full of furry pfp gentleanimals advising you on how to fix your latest issue with your new linux installation.
I know you’re mixing in joking with your response, but can I point out the irony that a Linux advocate is telling me essentially “don’t try to hack a solution, just give it up entirely and adopt a completely different product”. That is the opposite of the Linux mindset I’m familiar with.
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first. Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
It’s because Linux isn’t actually trying to work against you, even if it may feel that way to a noobie at first.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”. I don’t believe that is the case either. Linux works for itself, and if what you want can be done with Linux, great! If you have the skills to alter Linux to do what you want, also great! If you have neither of those, then you’ll be left without a specific solution. Linux is great, but trying to pitch it as purely altruistic and supportive isn’t accurate and could lead those trying it to abandon it early because their own experience doesn’t meet this implicit expectation.
The question isn’t “why take the time to hack windows” it’s “why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? Because that was one of the basic tenets underlying Linux. There is no perfect operating system, just different tradeoffs. If one OS meets most of your needs for a specific task, and you have a way to hack it to fix the rest, thats the better solution rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. Departing from this idea moves the definition of computing from a tool to a religion/social movement. That’s fine for some, but not my calling.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want?
I literally said this was NOT the question.
I’m not trying to strawman you here, so lets revisit these to make sure we understand what each other is saying.
Your statement suggest that if Windows is “trying to work against you” then Linux is “trying to work for you”.
That’s literally not what I said, nor what I implied. If you want to interpret it that way it’s your choice, but I’m not going to defend a statement I didn’t make and didn’t try to make.
I don’t understand why you’d bring up “trying to work against you” if you weren’t implying that Linux was the opposite. I suggested you were implying it was the opposite, and you’re communicating now that is not what you mean. I don’t think you’re suggesting that Linux “is trying to work against you”. So if its not a positive, and not a negative, you’re suggesting what…neutral? As in, “Linux is neither trying to work against you nor is trying to help you”. I suppose I can agree with that, but I’m not sure how that supports your argument.
What am I missing you are trying to communicate with your statement?
You don’t escape that problem entirely in Linux, it just takes different forms. Proprietary vendor Linux hardware drivers would be a perfect example.
I feel like you aren’t distinguishing between “problem exists” and “problem exists because the makers of my OS want it to exist.”
You’re right, I’m not distinguishing between them because as an end user the reason is irrelevant. I’m left with the same result, with the same choices about how to solve it for myself. I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done.
So why hack Windows to make it do what you want? I literally said this was NOT the question.
My apologies for the paraprhasing of your position of my position.
Lets look at your exact question:
“why keep supporting a company that requires you to undo so much of the product just to maintain control and privacy with your own hardware, and which actively seeks to sabotage attempts to do so.”
My answer: Because I’m not trying to save the world. I’m trying to get my computing done. If a hack to the existing product can do that faster than changing the world, then the hack is the better choice FOR ME. If its a social/religious movement for you, feel free to spread the “good word”. I won’t stop you, but I’m not interested in joining your evangelistic endeavor.
Man, if “Microsoft is actively trying to take control of my hardware and prevent me from deciding how it is used” and “Linux has a learning curve and lacks market dominance to get hardware manufacturers to play with them sometimes” seem like equivalent circumstances to you, there is no number of iterations to this back and forth that are going to arrive at any common ground between you and I. I can only say good day to you.
Guaranteed this requirement exists to make Recall impossible to uninstall, and for no other reason.
Or maybe it’s so you can use it in search box in explorer.exe
I’m skeptical that irrevocably tying the two together is the only or best technological solution to wanting it in the search box.
Incompatible DLLs most likely.
Based on the comments here you’d think Copilot+ PC’s are actually a popular thing. Nobody here has a PC that will run Recall. Essentially nobody has a Copilot+ PC at the moment.
Side note: Recall isn’t the boogeyman it’s being made out to be.
Explorer has had so many dependencies attached to it that if even one of them sneezes, the entire desktop environment crashes and has to restart.
Actually insane when you think about it. Why the hell is a file explorer the root process of the desktop???
I’ve only ever forced stopped thunar once and it was because I was messing with some thumbnail settings. Naturally the rest of my system worked as normal, as well as the other thunar windows open lol.
I remember them doing this with Internet Explorer back in the 90s.
“We can’t remove this thing we don’t want to remove! Look! It’s hastily integrated with the OS! We can’t remove it ever!”
Didnt they try this same shit with IE decades ago until they were forced to decouple it from explorer?
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screw Microsoft…i hope people will consider to switch to Linux
Good thing I don’t use Tabs.
