I’m guessing it’s like Christianity where there are leftist Christians who follow Jesus’ more progressive messages such as giving to the less fortunate and healing the sick, and then there are the scary Christian evangelicals that want A Handmaids Tale and conversion therapy. Logically, Islam probably isn’t a monolith in a similar way other religions aren’t.
However, I have never heard about what those of the Islamic faith actually believe outside of the hysterical post 9/11 Islamophobia I’ve been indoctrinated with as a child.
I want to know what the truth is and hear the other sides story. To me it’s obvious that Islamophobia is wrong, however when Islamophobes make wild claims about it, I can’t really refute them confidently because I’m simply ignorant of the facts. Please educate my dumb, white ass.
We’re still a long way from someone pressing the no religion button
Post-religious society is something Marx talked about.
That’s the thing: it comes after a whole lot of other social restructuring. Being smarmy and condescending toward people that have religion as one of their only forms of comfort in a crushingly unjust system is just being a privileged Reddity asshole scoring euphoria points by looking down on less enlightened beings, as seen in this thread.
If it was as sexist as westoids claim there would be no living women in the Islamic world
I think this pretty heavily downplays misogyny. It could easily be a chud argument about how misogyny doesn’t exist in the west.
When a Hexbear comrade posts a valid question seeking greater understanding, but then smug and condescending Reddit New Atheism oozes into the thread:
Ex-muslim here!
While there are obviously a lot of different interpretations and sects of Islam that have different feelings on these matters, the short and most correct answer would be basically, yes, Islam is one of the most homophobic and misogynistic religions out there.
Most Muslims are extremely conservative in their beliefs when it comes to these topics. I’d say it’s honestly safe to assume that most every Muslim you come across is likely going to be a raging homophobe and/or misogynist.
All religions are pretty shitty in my opinion but Islam has been the worst offender and is the most cultish in my experience. There’s a site I linked below that goes in depth on things like this, so you might wanna check it out.
I don’t agree with this view. Islam is not uniquely more homophobic or misogynistic than the other abrahamic religions
I’m falling asleep as I type this but I feel the need to write a bigger response in the morning
I forgot to mention the intense misogyny in my comment, good call. My experiences are very similar to yours.
Damn, guys. Please debate the validity of religion as a whole in a different post, would you? It’s getting way too off topic. I’m not religious, but I’m also aware that in hell world we need our opiates or we’ll go crazy.
It’s because of fedoralords like the one furiously fedora tipping in this thread that I call myself nonreligious instead of atheist.
It is too late comrade you have opened the religion debate floodgates by mentioning the existence of religion lmao
Oh look it’s the “if religion gone all problems go away” argument, which looks conspicuously similar to fundies arguing “if everyone followed my religion all problems go away.”
EDIT: Not directed at you @[email protected] ; I was in agreement with what you were saying.
Sorry I’m a little bit dumb are you misunderstanding me or just venting about the state of the thread lol
Because I was very much making fun of people derailing this thread for the thirty millionth discussion about the merits of religion as a whole
No, that’s not directed at you, but at what you were talking about, which is elsewhere in the thread.
Understood, carry on then comrade
As others have pointed out, there are many “sub genres” of Islam. I am not an expert and am not Muslim or religious myself, but from what I gather the extreme ones like Wahhabism in Saudi is of course exceedingly socially conservative, but there are of course others. From what I understand, despite what the z!onists say, The form of Islam that Hamas represents is way more moderate especially regarding things such as the veil (I can’t recall ever seeing Bisan wearing one) and I’ve read anecdotal stories of openly gay tourists visiting Gaza (before the holocaust obviously) and having zero problems.
Any Muslim comrades with more knowledge please feel free to correct me where I am wrong here or expand.
Also fuck new atheists and big ups to all my Muslim comrades, free Palestine inshallah 🇵🇸
Religion is always trash. No way around that and even as open mind leftists or wannabe leftists we have to recognize that. However the worst elements of religion tend to moderate with development something the Muslim world has been denied by the great Satan
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Christian zionists and Jewish zionists and their religious beliefs are a huge driving force in this genocide. If you’re too dumb to realize that I don’t know what to tell you.
The OG Zionists were atheist Jews who opportunistically used a religious text revealed by a God they don’t even believe in to claim Palestine as their own. If anything, it was the more religiously observant Jews who resisted Zionism because they saw the bunk pushed by those particular atheist Jews as the bunk that it was. And while secular Bundism is no more, anti-Zionist Hasidic communities still exist.
And? So many of the current Israeli are religious fundamentalists. Jews are an ethno religious group and making Israel a country for Jews (literally their law) is both an ethno nationalist and religio nationalist project.
No no, you heard the fedoralord. All sociopolitical problems are because of religion and if religion vanished tomorrow in a puff of euphoria, all would be well.
If you’re too dumb to realize that I don’t know what to tell you.
How about telling some of those aforementioned suffering people that ACKSHULLY their religion is the sole source of their suffering and how they’re “too dumb to realize it”
and see how long you can stand there smirking at them before you got hurt.ACKSHULLY their religion is the sole source of their suffering and how they’re
Your words not mine
Your words not mine
Yes, so get some reading comprehension so you can contextually understand them.
Marx himself said that a post-religious society was a good thing, many steps ahead.
There is no step of being a smug condescending fedoralord while capitalism is still crushing people. Or, as another poster just put it here:
“Hah, fine, I’ll read Marx”
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions.
and that’s why i left the Left"You may not be leaving the left, but if all you have to contribute is being a divisively condescendingly smug fedoralord, maybe you should because Reddit beckons you back.
Is religion a progressive force or not? I’m just here to point out it’s not. Dressing up my stance with your imagined motivations is a you problem. And I actually think that religion and capitalism are so tied up together at this point that a post capitalist world will have to come hand in hand with a post religious world.
AGAIN.
READ. MARX.
You are so fucking excited about the no religion part that happens after capitalism’s end that you are using it to such smug and divisive ends in the here and now that even here you’re just pissing people off and you somehow expect your fedorable messaging to win the working class over outside of here?
Do you build a table by trying to have dinner on the unassembled nails and planks first?
And I actually think that religion and capitalism are so tied up together at this point that a post capitalist world will have to come hand in hand with a post religious world.
You’re clownishly ignorant if you don’t notice that Silicon Valley’s corporate sector is absolutely stuffed to the gills with New Atheists, right now.
Could you at least try to be as cool as this cat if you’re going to be tipping that fedora of yours?
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Not American. Not white. I really don’t know what image you’ve cooked up in your head
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Gotcha. Anyway I’m probably getting banned so feel free to keep this going
Anyway I’m probably getting banned
For such a very enlightened New Atheist, you sure seem to like dragging around a self-righteous self-pitying cross.
Actually you know what, in the spirit of making this site a better place to use for everyone and since you didn’t really say anything bad I am sorry for aggressively responding to your original post and wrongly insulting your intelligence, very bad behaviour on my part. Next time it would have been better for me to start a productive discussion about the relationship between religious thought and the superstructure of class society. Unironically hope you have a good day.
Ok I just thought about it some more, although I somewhat agree with your sentiment and think you have good intentions, I think it is quite unfair to say “religion is always trash” and vehemently disagree with that belief. We have users here who are Palestinian muslims currently facing a genocide because of their faith, which gives people the will to continue in the face of unspeakable horrors, is definetely not “trash”. We in the west have to remember that just because our own governments are insane genocidal christian/jewish extremists doesn’t mean we can solipsisticly apply this judgement to everyone else, including the people who they are genociding. We should always remember to think of others and be considerate.
Fair enough. Trash isn’t the best word to use when discussing a sensitive topic.
Trash isn’t the best word to use when discussing a sensitive topic.
Sounds like “I am sorry if you are offended” weasel words.
Agreed, also wouldn’t say its a discrete abstract “sensitive topic”, its moreso an acknowledgement of the sheer gravity of the current ongoing situation, the reality of the horrific genocide that our governments are bankrolling right at this very moment, the mass death and suffering that the west has failed to prevent. Even as we speak there are innocent people murdered and tortured by the enemy, whose loved ones may be posting here as well. We in the west need to discard condescending attitudes, come down from the ivory tower and return to reality so we can stop this genocide.
L
Feel free to square that circle and explain how religion and Marxism are able to go hand in hand. Marxism is a material analysis of the world. Religion is not and quite the opposite.
Marx called religion the soul of soulless conditions.
Sanctimoniously looking down on downtrodden people before anything about those conditions can even begin to improve must feel good, but it doesn’t win anyone over that isn’t already tipping fedoras at you.
Religion is literally used to maintain dominance over people and prevent condition from improving
Your smug bloviating is “literally” alienating and pushing people away that are so crushed by their present conditions that saying “um actually religion bad” is just an insufferable liberal-coded flex on them that makes them hate you more.
Plenty of New Atheists in the present day lick corporate boots and they are certainly contributing to a worsening of conditions.
Have you fucking read Marx? The post-religious world comes a long time later and your self-congratulatory present-day smugness has no function or purpose in it.
“Hah, fine, I’ll read Marx”
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions.
“
and that’s why i left the Left”
actually not interested in a debate reddit atheist, just wanted to let you know your take sucks!
What debate lol
What debate lol
Feel free to square that circle and explain how religion and Marxism are able to go hand in hand.
There is a specter haunting this thread: the specter of Sam Harris style "not Islamophobic,
" Reddit New Atheism.it haunts the whole website!
the specter of Sam Harris style "not Islamophobic,
"I hate people like this, so, so much.
https://lemmy.ml/post/20955835/14091348
https://lemmy.ml/post/20955835/14091503
Main thing is: remember there are a billion Muslims and have been for ~1400 years. There’s been a lot of diversity within that.
New band name just dropped: Egyptian Vice.
Thank you
A Korean revert I’ve watched on YouTube just dropped a transphobic short and a video on “lgbt” that I haven’t watched yet. It’s disappointing, but not uncommon with my minimal exposure
I live in majority muslim nation and yeah theres plenty of conservative muslim, just like how nearly every nation has many conservatives. However racists westerners pretend homophobia and sexism is uniquely exotic to muslim and use it to deflect that the west still has prevalent sexism and homophobia attitudes.
Edward Said best describes this phenomenonen in his book about Orientalism.
oh! oh! I know this one
so as someone who was actually brought up Muslim and is queer, I will say that my personal experience has been nothing but intense homophobia & transphobia, yeah. I’ve essentially been disowned by my family + anyone I knew from that culture and I have to LARP as a white person because Islam has such a stranglehold on the arab culture
I don’t really know (or care) if this is inherent to Islam, the homophobia comes from the story of lot and the transphobia tends to come mostly from the Hadith though. it is probably possible to have an Islam that is not like this but it is NOT the Islam that exists today, or will anytime soon
there is a subset of queer friendly Muslims but they almost exclusively exist in the west. OBVIOUSLY queer people exist in e.g. west Asia but it is NOT a thing you can be that public about, especially depending on the country. in the west I see the queer friendly Muslims often get treated as one of the biggest internal threats to Islam.
you’ve got the whole perception some people have, that queerness is like western degen bullshit invading the based East or whatever, to wrestle with as well - this DEFINITELY makes the queerphobia like 100x worse, people who are being attacked by a pinkwashing state like the Zionist entity are obviously going to be more anti-lgbt as a result, especially when the seeds in the religion/culture are already there. anti-imperialism remains the best way a westerner can improve this situation!
maybe trauma dumping idk
so yeah shit sucks fam! it is incredibly alienating to be a queer Arab ex-muslim commie. your culture rejects you and it is hard to voice any particularly anti-islam opinions sometimes because of my experiences the way westerners can be anti-christianity because of their religious trauma.
I kind of get why, in the west (especially in Europe) being anti-Islam mostly comes from islamaphobic fascists. but the nuance of ‘the west should not bomb west Asia’ & ‘islam is bad, actually’ is too difficult to communicate ime (or requires me to give a LOT of personal information like I have done here so people know I’m not just a white westerner fascist)
