OK, its just a deer, but the future is clear. These things are going to start kill people left and right.
How many kids is Elon going to kill before we shut him down? Whats the number of children we’re going to allow Elon to murder every year?
Oooooh, can we shut Elon down? I mean literally shut down actual Elon. Does he have an off switch? He’s gone wonky and I’d like to turn him off now.
I’d like to turn him off now.
Just as well. If you turn him on he offers to buy you a pony.
People are well known for never ever running over anything or anyone.
I watched the whole video… Mowed down like 90 deer in a row.
Dude. Just angle the truck upwards! It’ll go right over that!
Whats the number of children we’re going to allow Elon to murder every year?
What’s the number of adults?
- Vehicle needed lidar
- Vehicle should have a collision detection indicator for anomalous collisions and random mechanical problems
Just a small clarification… Teslas only kill forward or backwards. Hardly ever has a car killed left or right 😂.
It doesn’t have to not kill people to be an improvement, it just has to kill less people than people do
True in a purely logical sense, but assigning liability is a huge issue for self-driving vehicles.
As long as there’s manual controls the driver is responsible as they’re supposed to be ready to take over
That doesn’t sound like a self-driving car to me.
Because it’s not, it’s a car with assisted driving, like all cars you can drive at the moment and with which, surprise surprise, you are held responsible if there’s an accident while it’s in assisted mode.
That’s a low bar when you consider how stringent airline safety is in comparison, and that kills way less people than driving does. If sensors can save people’s lives, then knowingly not including them for profit is intentionally malicious.
Friendly reminder that tesla auto pilot is an AI training on live data. If it hasn’t seen something enough times then it won’t know to stop. This is how you have a tesla running full speed into an overturned semi and many, many other accidents.
I wonder how much recognition it has on non-white people. we’ve seen these models not having enough people of color in their samples before.
Color doesn’t matter to Lidar… Oh wait… Elon nixed that.
I hate Tesla as much as the next guy in here.
But I learned at my driving lessons that you shouldn’t hit the breaks for animals running into your lane, because it can result in a car crash that’s way worse. (think truck behind you with a much longer break length.)
Don’t know if there’s different rules.
You learned wrong if you think that is a universal rule for all animals.
You might have been told that for small animals like squirrels, but that is more about not overreacting. You should absolutely brake for a deer, whether or not you are being tailgated, just like you would brake for any large object on the road.
Hitting a deer at speed is going to cause far more problems for you AND the people behind you than trying to not hit the deer.
You’re probably right. I encountered maybe 2 or 3 deers running out in front of my car so far, and I hit the breaks every time in pure reflex anyway.
Dodged them so far, but damn I’m scared I might hit one at some point.
That’s why humans have brains, for situational awareness.
And it’s less about not breaking for an animal, as it is about not wildly swerving.
Also, you should probably revise your thinking on this before you visit any states that have large animals like Moose on the roads. Because if you plow into one with a car, it can easily kill you when it crushes you after impact.
You absolutely need to hit the brakes, but don’t swerve. A deer weighs over 200lbs and will likely crash into your windshield if you hit it head on. You need to safely loose as much speed as you can because even a side hit on the deer is likely to wreck your axel and prevent you from driving.
Exactly. I know somebody who died when a deer came through the windshield…
Yeah, I heard about people dying in crashes with deers also. I just remembered we were taught this, and I just thought it might be programmed to ignore animals because of this.
But it’s probably wrong, and as someone pointed out, it seems like it didn’t even see the deer.
If you watch the video, the deer was standing on a strip of off coloured pavement, and also had about the same length as the dotted line. Not sure how much colour information comes through at night on those cameras.
The point here isn’t actually “should it have stopped for the deer” , it’s “if the system can’t even see the deer, how could it be expected to distinguish between a deer and a child?”
The calculus changes incredibly between a deer and a child.
Agree, it didn’t do anything to avoid the obstacle. A human could probably see it as an obstacle and try to swerve to the side, albeit not knowing what it is. Not saying it’s possible to avoid, but some reaction would be made.
A human could probably see it as an obstacle and try to swerve to the side, albeit not knowing what it is.
Attempting to swerve aside at that speed results in over correction, followed by loss of control and then a rollover crash. Happens all the time to people who aren’t aware / don’t remember that you’re supposed to hit deer head on.
Happens all the time to people who aren’t aware / don’t remember that you’re supposed to hit deer head on.
This isn’t true. You shouldn’t jerk the wheel and swerve to avoid an animal, but if you can do it safely you absolutely should. Not only to avoid damage, but to prevent it coming through the windshield. I’ve seen this same idea in a few different comments here, but growing up in deer infested upstate NY, “hit it head on” is something I’ve never heard. Not from parents/relatives, not from driver’s ed, not from the internet until today. Keep it out of the ditch but absolutely avoid hitting the deer if you can. You don’t need to jerk the wheel to move 4-6 feet to the right, into the shoulder.
I’d imagine there’s a few reasons for the variation in driver training between upstate NY and Wyoming.
- Road Speed. Here in Wyoming our highways are 65-70MPH (posted) and most of the Interstate is posted at 80MPH. You can generally figure that everyone is doing at least 5MPH over that. The higher the speed the less time you have to react and the harder it is to lightly twitch a vehicle to one side or the other.
- Road layout. You commented about swerving into the shoulder but most of our highways have a shoulder width of 48" or less and on the other side of the shoulder there’s commonly a ditch. It has to do with the wind and snow we get here but if you twitch onto the shoulder here you are likely to encounter a very unwelcome surprise.
- Animal differences. In upstate New York you’re dodging Whitetail deer, here you’re trying to dodge Antelope (which are nearly as fast your car) Mule deer, Elk, Black bear, Brown Bear, and the occasional Moose. The bigger the animal the harder it is to dodge.
The way you describe upstate NY is how it was taught to me when I grew up in Nebraska but it’s not what they advise in Wyoming. Here you stay in your lane and slow down as much as you can before impact.
The idea of don’t swerve for deer is very common and is taught in driving schools. If you’ve never heard it until today, well you were let down and today you learn. You don’t know dismiss it because you haven’t heard it.
Swerving is dangerous and even if you think you can do it safely, having a deer appear while travelling at high speeds is risky, even more so at night.
You’re supposed to slow down but stay in lane.
The reason you’re supposed to swerve for things like Moose is because moose are big as fuck and tall, and if you hit one head on, you will cut the legs out from under it, and it’s massive body will roll through the windshield and crush you, killing you or causing massive bodily harm.
This is from the Virginia DMV for example (emphasis mine). Them not having something about moose is actually bad as well.
https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/sites/default/files/forms/dmv39d.pdf
Deer/Large Animal Hazards Tens of thousands of crashes with deer, elk, and bears take place in Virginia each year, resulting in fatalities, injuries and costly vehicle damage. To avoid hitting a deer or other large animal:
- Be alert at dusk and dawn especially in the fall.
- Slow down if you see a large animal near or crossing the road. Large animals frequently travel in groups; there are likely others nearby.
- Use the horn to scare the animal away.
- If a collision with a deer or other animal is unavoidable, do not swerve. Brake firmly, stay in your lane, and come to a controlled stop.
Wait, are you saying that Virginia not mentioning what to do if a moose is in the road is “bad”?
Considering that the northern-most part of Virginia is still about 350 mi south of the closest range of moose, it would be pointless if not absurd for them to include it.
I dunno where that map is from but it’s wrong. Moose range extends as far south as Wyoming and I know they have them in Colorado as well. Not just the occasional sighting either, they have hunting seasons for Moose.
Do people from Virginia never travel 350miles north?
The guidance on that page is incorrect and if that’s what they teach it might kill someone.
Did you read the second sentence I wrote? Of course don’t swerve. That doesn’t mean you have to hit them head on all the time. It’s okay to hit deer head on, but you’re not “supposed to” as the comment I was replying to says. If you can safely move over a few feet and make it a glancing blow, or miss altogether, that’s better and safer than head on. We have antilock brakes ubiquitously now, you can steer and brake simultaneously. If you’ve got shoulder to use, use it.
If you can safely change lanes then of course change lanes as your normally would do to avoid anything in your lane.
Beyond that it’s now dangerous. Stay in lane, hit the deer.
If you wouldn’t normally change lanes like that, then don’t do it for the deer.
Hit the deer head on, but swerve for moose and elk.
At the same time, it would have located it if it was using radar, but Musk decided that cameras are the future (contrary to all other brands)
Yeah. I mean, I understand the premise, I just think it’s flawed. Like, you and I as vehicle operators use two cameras when we drive (our two eyes). It’s hypothetically sufficient in terms of raw data input.
Where it falls apart is that we also have brains which have evolved in ways we don’t even understand to consume those inputs effectively.
But most importantly, why aim for parity at all? Why NOT give our cars the tools to “see” better than a human? I want that!
No human could have avoided that deer without swerving their car.
A lidar provides superhuman vision which works in the dark and through fog. Elon is making a human car and ignores all the limits we have that can be solved in other ways.
A human is a general purpose organism. We are not designed as specialized driving machines.
I completely agree that if there are tools that can allow a vehicle to “see” better than a human it’s absurd not to implement them. Even if musk could make a car exactly as good as a human, that’s a low bar. It isn’t good enough.
As for humans: if you are operating a vehicle such that you could not avoid killing an unexpected person on the road, you are not safely operating the vehicle. In this case, it’s known as “over driving your headlights”, you are driving at a speed that precludes you from reacting appropriately by the time you can perceive an issue.
Imagine if it wasn’t a deer but a chunk of concrete that would kill you if struck at speed. Perhaps a bolder on a mountain pass. A vehicle that has broken down.
Does Musk’s system operate safely? No. The fact that it was a deer is completely irrelevant.
Also on motorbikes you are more stable at high speed so better to hit a dog at speed than slow down which could lead to person behind you hitting you or you crashing.Ok seems I was wrong.Absolutely not true. No amount of speed is going to keep you safe if you strike an animal on a bike. You’re better off slowing down so that you have less momentum when you wreck. Drivers should be giving you enough space (even though they rarely do). A deer weighs more than a grown man and will kill you if you hit it at highway speed. A dog will take out your front wheel and cause you to wreck whether you hit it at 15mph or 80mph.
A deer will shatter your nose fairing and snap handlebars at speed. The next object to catch the deer is your head and torso. No, the burly batwing fairings on a full dresser cruiser are not any stronger than the nose cone on a sport bike when it comes to a 200lb meat bag approaching at 70mph.
So many myths perpetuated by people who bucked classes and PRACTICE in favor of their uncle’s advice.
don’t most cars have proximity and collision detectors now?
Not Tesla though, it relies on cameras only.
leave it to elon to take existing technology and make it worse to sell it as innovative high tech. fucking moron
the deer is not blameless. those bastards will race you to try and cross in front of you.
Finally someone else familiar with the most deadly animal in North America.
yeah well ive hit about $15k worth of them over the years
I’d give the moose the top spot. Maybe not in sheer numbers of deaths, but I’d much rather have an encounter with a deer than a moose.
Though for sheer number, I also wouldn’t give that to deer, that spot would go to humans, though I can admit it’s a bit pedantic.
Full speed in the dark, I think most people would failed to avoid that. What’s concerning is it does not stop afterwards
Isn’t Elon advertising AI as orders of magnitudes better reaction time and much less error prone than a human though…
Remember when they removed ultrasonic and radar sensors in favor of “Tesla Vision”? That decision demonstrably cost people their lives and yet older, proven tech continues to be eschewed in favor of the cutting edge new shiny.
I’m all for pushing the envelope when it comes to advancements in technology and AI in its many forms, but those of us that don’t buy Teslas never signed up to volunteer our lives as training data for FSD.
reading this, I am scared how dulled I have become to the danger posed from my 45 minute daily commute back from work. 65 kilometer driving into the black at 100km/h
Note that part of the discussion is we shouldn’t settle for human limitations when we don’t have to. Notably things like LIDAR are considered to give these systems superhuman vision. However, Tesla said ‘eyes are good enough for folks, so just cameras’.
The rest of the industry said LIDAR is important and focus on trying to make it more practical.
I think the LIDAR and other sensors are supposed to be IR and see in the dark.
Sensors that the Tesla famously doesn’t have (afaik, didn’t check) because Elon is a dumbass.
Too bad Tesla’s don’t have that. Just cameras and machine learning.
The cameras alone should be able to see IR. There’s filters over most digital cameras to prevent that, but no reason to do it here.
Tesla is just advertising technology that isn’t ready, and people are dying as a result.
And its also always to have multiple layers of defence. Its straight up stupid to remove the redundancy in safety measures because you trust your tech.
For any camera to see IR, there must be IR light there to be seen. LIDAR and proximity sensors emit their own light, but TIL tesla doesn’t have any… Great tech…my 300€ vacuum bot has LIDAR… Ofc it doesn’t go 130KM/h in the dark, but I was 99.99% sure any self-driving car had the bare minimum of sensors, but I guess Tesla isn’t one of them.
Yeah, lidar and radar don’t need an external light source to work
Why is anyone going full speed in the dark? Let alone an unsafe self driving car.
It was an illegal deer immigrant, it recognised it, added it to the database on Tesla servers, and mowed it down before it took any jobs or whatever the hate-concern was.
/s
… but some actual technically human people do the same when they see an animal, don’t they?
:(… but some actual technically human people do the same when they see an animal, don’t they?
Not deer…
its just a deer
Deer are people too…
Is there video that actually shows it “keeps going”? The way that video loops I know I can’t tell what happens immediately after.
The way that video loops I know I can’t tell what happens immediately after.
SRSLY?
Have you ever been in a car, going fast?
You can see in the video that the car does NOT brake hard before the crash. Not even in the very last second.
What did YOU think what happens in the next second?
What I think doesn’t matter. I’d like to actually see the whole video though. Then I nor you would need to hypothesize about it either.
The driver’s tweet says it kept going, but I didn’t find the full video.
Inb4 it actually stopped with hazards like I’ve seen in other videos. Fuck elon and fuck teslas marketing of self driving but I’ve seen people reach far for karma hate posts on tesla sooooooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The poster, who pays Tesla CEO Elon Musk for a subscription to the increasingly far-right social media site, claimed that the FSD software “works awesome” and that a deer in the road is an “edge case.” One might argue that edge cases are actually very important parts of any claimed autonomy suite, given how drivers check out when they feel the car is doing the work, but this owner remains “insanely grateful” to Tesla regardless.
Yeah nah. This person is the absolute opposite of a Tesla or Musk hater. They’ve had this experience and are expressing fucking gratitude to Tesla. Some people really are crazy.
