Interesting.
When a rich man is sentenced to prison, and then actually has to go to prison, it’s called a “legal loophole”.
My first thought was “So we call ‘following the law’ a loophole now?”
If the law meant a fucking thing, he would have been in prison decades ago.
WHY did it take this long to get around to it? So bizarre.
In a word: Garland.
In two words: Merrick Garland
In three words: fucking Merrick Garland
In four words: fucking Merrick “Slowclown” Garland
In five words: establishment hack as attorney general.
'The voters are going to reject him and then we don’t have to go through all this messy business if prosecution."
It’s the moral elevation of inaction for its own sake above action for any reason.
It doesn’t matter. None of this matters.
guys, this is dumb af. this is america. trump isn’t going to prison.
Didn’t Napoleon go to prison?
Napoleon was french, not American.
Citation needed.
Also then you put JD in charge…
Would he? Honest question I’m not sure how at would work if Trump was imprisoned or died before taking office.
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-20/
In Section 3:
If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the GOP martyred Trump, honestly. They can’t have him abdicate or remove him and have MAGA support, but if they could find a way to martyr him they would have their messiah and Thiel’s boy in place. The smart play would be to have him serve more than half of his term though, so Vance could have a shot at 10 years in the White House.
I figure they’ll wait until Jan 21, 2027 at which point Trump’s death/removal wouldn’t prevent Vance from serving an additional two full terms. Before than and it counts towards the two term limit for Vance.
We (probably) don’t have a president-elect yet, only a presumptive one. The EC votes have been neither cast nor counted. The most likely point in time at which a candidate becomes president-elect is when the majority of the EC votes have been cast for that candidate, regardless of the counting and certification. Even though we use the term loosely for the assumed winner, the EC adds a layer of weirdness to the legal definition.
Yeah, but most states have the faithless electors thing sorted out already, the ones that don’t would probably quickly pass laws to bind them to the slate the voters chose.
What I’m saying is not about faithless electors. I never mentioned them, so I’m not completely sure what took you down that road.
There is a legal definition of the term “president-elect” that hasn’t entirely been sorted out. The most widely accepted view is that the candidate who has the majority of EC votes cast for them, regardless of whether those votes have been counted or certified, is legally the president-elect. The nuance to this is that any reference to the president-elect before EC votes have been cast is using the common term, not the legal one.
The distinction is mostly inconsequential, one major exception being the 20th amendment, which you cited previously. That particular usage is specifically the legal definition, which very likely has not been satisfied until the EC casts their votes. The outcome is that, if those who are meant to uphold the law have any interest in doing so, the 20th amendment does not yet apply, and the legal roles of president-elect and vice president-elect are currently vacant.
Thank you for sou g the leg work.
I would go so far as to say that this has always ben the plan, at least this time around. I find it highly suspicious that Trump has been the target of assassination attempts by republicans twice (plus a foreign attempt on his life) already. We’re being prepared to accept this as expected when it finally happens, and it has to happen in order to give Vance the pretext to implement martial law and usher in the high-tech Handmaid’s Tale scenario his patrons want. Trump is their useful idiot; but useful only because he is populist and charismatic enough to get them in power via ordinary electoral process. Once they suspend that process entirely they no longer need him and in fact he becomes a liability; offing him kills two birds with one stone.
People who think trump is going to prison now are delusional.
That’s the whole point why they suspended sentencing till elections so to see who wins. He’s not getting sentenced now.
It’s a meme so of course it’s dumb. It’s also pretty funny.
Loophole or not. His AG (likely Cannon) will threaten prison time or charge with treason or insurrection with anyone who attempts to continue any cases against him
Hasn’t he already threatened Letitia James and called her a fat ass?
“We put all our politicians in prison as soon as they’re elected. Don’t you?” “Why?” “It saves time.” -Terry Pratchett, The Last Continent
I am convinced that if Kamala won Trump would have started an armed insurgency. Well, this would definitely about do it.
deleted by creator
I remember having dreams. You guys remember those? Fun times.
They would just exercise the 25th amendment and put Vance in the seat. I’m not sure who’s ass is in the chair is the worst-case scenario
I actually think Trump is better than Vance. Somehow.
It’s not actually Trump that’s the biggest threat, it’s his supporters. And the Republican party that lets him do whatever he wants. That cult-like behavior dies with him (please, tonight on a hamberder). Vance sucks shit, but he in the past has said things against Trump, suggesting he’s just in his camp for the power, money and fame. And sadly, that’s the best case scenario in this failed democracy…
Good news is the Republicans are varying levels of unhinged, so since Trump doesn’t actually care about policy they could become deadlocked again as they infight over how badly to screw up the country, probably with trying to muck up Medicare or the ACA again
You’re assuming they’re still going to be allowed to make decisions.
Everyone is expecting his government to still follow the established rules, but there’s very good reason to think those rules will be thrown out.
The USA is dead.
Everyone is expecting his government to still follow the established rules
Realistically, the government will be forced to continue to follow the established precedent and constitution until the moment its not. When it will go off the rails and what to expect are entirely unknowable, but ultimately every institution relies upon and expects the United States federal government continuing to function and enforce the rule of law.
Most likely, if Trump is successful at becoming a dictator, it won’t be by breaking the rules but simply changing them. Lukashenko of Belarus was elected to their position, then changed the rules to hold onto power. Putin of Russia continues to be elected to his position and changes the rules to hold onto power. Erdoğan of Turkey continues to be elected to his position, and changes the rules to hold onto power. By following the laws and engaging in (heavily manipulated) democratic elections it provides an illusion of legitimacy and stability that doesn’t immediately scare away all business investment and industry, two things that the United States relies heavily upon as a service-based economy. A violent revolution would immediately collapse the economy, eliminating most support for Trump’s cause and radicalizing many against him. A policy-based revolution can occur before most people can even identify that its happening, and by the time its clear what’s happened it will be too late to do anything to stop it.
But a policy-based revolution actually requires the policies to be passed, and in the United States, policies don’t pass without financial support from wealthy businesses and their executives. The Republican party is made up of members who are all varying degrees of unhinged. Many seem to only follow trump because that’s the politically “safe” thing for them to do and will break the moment it appears “safe” to break from him (we saw the first Republicans try to do this in early 2021 following the insurrection on Jan 6th, but Trump was still too powerful so they were primaried and now presumably took jobs with large donors in the private sector). Mike Pence certified the election (a largely symbolic gesture that while legally required to conclude presidential election, there is no precedent nor written law dictating what happens if an election is not certified) against trump’s orders because actually toppling democracy was simply too far for him. Other republican politicians will find their own breaking points where their personal values and morals outweigh their careers and take an action against Trump’s wishes. And the entire opposition now knows without a shadow of a doubt that Trump and his cronies will attempt to keep him in power, so the opposition will do everything it can to stop it. The cards are still in Democracy’s favor, and they’re very much stacked against Trump and likely the Democrats as well (Once Trump passes there’s a good chance the Republican party will collapse and either a new party will grow out of its remains or the Democrats will swing right again collecting the Republican politicians still wishing to continue their careers and a new party will emerge from the Left. Historically, no political party has survived past its dictatorial strongman)
So, in short, yes Trump’s scary, but clearly I have more faith in our political institutions and politicians to shake off this obvious grasp for dictatorial power than you do.
oui. he can’t help but get in his own way. he’s also endlessly distractable.
I’ve always seen their endgame as Vance taking over sometime during Trumps term. What I never considered until this moment is that with control of both sides of the Legislature, the GOP would also be able to pick whomever they wanted as a replacement for Vance in the VP spot. Zero primary election vote. Zero general election by the people, just the GOP leadership with a blank check to put whatever monster in the Executive branch without anything stopping them beyond the Constitutional limits that they be American born, be at least 35 years old, and having living in the USA for 14 years or more.
What monster would the GOP pick to be Vance’s VP?
Vance is worse.
Yes it would be funny, it would also probably cause a civil uprising.
The legal loophole is called maximum sentence.
But no, he was always going to get something like 2 years supervised parole.
That’s 100% not going to happen. As much as it should.
Nobody is going to put an elected present in jail. It’s game over.
After the election results and looking at Elon for past few months, I’m starting to think Trump isn’t the problem. It won’t matter if he stays or not. USA has got bigger knives in it’s chest.
STARTING to think? Honestly I don’t even hate Trump anymore. It’s like hating a shark or a snake or something. He’s just doing what he does. It’s the ~75 million people who enable him by voting for him that are disgusting and terrifying right now. Half of America is the problem, and he is just a symptom, and it is a BIG BIG BIG problem for the whole world.
I’ve been trying to fathom the amount of misinformation out of here that has accumulated in people’s minds. There are people that I know and love, otherwise intelligent good people, that are thankful that Trump got elected. They believe that everything wrong with America and the world is due to “the Democrats”. And they’ve been that way since before 04.
There are also people I know (many of whom are relatives) who seem like normal people but then support Trump and all of his policies. I want to think they’re not horrible people and that they’re just brainwashed, but recently I’ve been seeing some of my friends jump on the alt-right bandwagon and posting extremely racist stuff to be “edgy”, even after leaving the far-right culture bubble they lived in. This is the sort of stuff that even when I was still a conservative I would never have thought it would be okay to promote, and I grew up in the same environment they did so it seems like they know perfectly well what they’re doing. After all of this I’m starting to think that maybe many of them are genuinely terrible people.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. Recently I looked up what has been going on in various European countries, and it seems like with a lot of them there’s an extreme populist party with about 20% control, there’s a less extreme party that’s still queerphobic and anti-abortion but more willing to compromise with maybe about 15% control, and then there’s more liberal but economically conservative parties parties making it so the total of economically conservative parties including the above two is above 50%. These countries also have actual progressive and even some left-wing representation in government.
Contrast this with the US, which only has a populist party and a socially liberal but economically conservative party that a bunch of people are brainwashed to think is literally communism. There is very little progressive representation even though the country has a significant number of progressives, and people who want less government regulations are voting Republican regardless of their stances on social issues. Meanwhile polls say that opposition to LGBTQ rights and abortion is probably around 30% which is not much different than the European countries I looked at. So I think half the problem is that democracy in the US is basically dysfunctional.
However, 30% opposition to LGBTQ and abortion rights is still fucking bad, and I’m still trying to figure out whether it is the propaganda to blame or the people themselves. Additionally racism and xenophobia had been on the rise everywhere and has basically gained popular support at this point so democracy clearly isn’t going to solve this.
This.
We have an absolutely wrecked educational system that nobody can think anymore. People have either working lives that occupy them 99% of the time and they can’t make informed decisions, or are suffering from 10-second attention-spans and can’t focus on any political messages past “I am the greatest, vote for me” and the fact that is the literal message that won an election, should terrify us all.
If we have a really big challenge, like a novel new virus or disease, in our current state with our current leaders, millions would di- oh, wait, what? I’m being told this already happened.
Well, if something else really bad happens then we’ll have similar or worse causalities.
Fix the 99% working lives. If Dems can’t get us a living wage back, what the hell are they good for?
Yeah you can absolutely forget about any meaningful climate change action now, education, health care, things like that.
The environmental impacts are going to be awful. With Chevron stripped and full gop legislative control it’s going to be free reign for companies to pollute whatever they want.
A false flag to enable emergency powers blessed upon the worst of us all.
A couple of questions (from someone not from US):
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Can’t he just presidential pardon himself?
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Even if put in jail, can he continue to act as a president? Like, give out orders, hold meetings, etc?
Presidential pardons only apply to federal cases. Not state cases.
Yes. Yes he could act as president
For the first question, there’s a distinction between state and federal crimes, things like shoplifting are usually state level crimes, if you do something like counterfeiting or crossing state lines while doing a criminal activity that’s often federal. The president can only pardon federal crimes, they can’t pardon a state crime (a year or two ago Biden pardoned federal weed offenses but that affected almost nobody because most people jailed for weed are at the state level which he couldn’t pardon). Trump’s charges in New York are state level and he can’t pardon those.
Whether or not Trump can pardon himself for federal offenses (like the case in Florida that’s been killed by that Trump-appointed judge) is yet untested (Nixon resigned and was pardoned by his successor to avoid this exact question), and it’d likely go to the Supreme Court… so they’d probably let him pardon himself.
I’m going to pass on the second question because I think he could actually be president from jail but I don’t know for sure. I’m not a lawyer, lol. Didn’t legal eagle do some videos about this?
He can only pardon federal crimes, and the state of New York obviously can only prosecute state crimes
I think he can operate as president from jail.
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