Summary
Following Donald Trump’s recent election victory, Google searches for “4B,” a South Korean feminist movement advocating a “no sex, no dating, no marriage, no children” stance, surged in the U.S.
The 4B movement, popular among young women on social media, promotes individual resistance against conservative politics and the erosion of reproductive rights.
The trend reflects a broader ideological divide between young men and women in the U.S., where women under 30 are significantly more liberal than men.
What’s the point?
I understand why they would choose not to date men that advocate against abortions and stuff - that’s basic dignity and self-protection.
But why not date any other men? To hurt demographics to the best of their ability state-wise? Then this is primarily a problem set 15-20 years into the future, and may not really see the government’s reaction for a while.
The article implies that this is a reaction to specifically conservative men. So I think there is nuance there that the article is choosing not to define. But until women get autonomy over their reproductive health, having sex with any men, conservative or not, comes with increased risk. So it has a certain logic to it even if they are truly swearing off literally all men.
Ooh, that’s something I didn’t grok when I first saw these articles pop up. Everything is focused on the “no sex punishment” angle. But, for women, now sex is more of a Russian roulette with varying amounts of bullets based on luck and how much the man cares about contraception.
An accident could saddle them with an unwanted child. Or death outside a hospital because doctors are immobilized by “abortion bans”.
It’s a protest about women reasserting autonomy over their own bodies. The majority of men in the US have voted for a regime that has shown it does not regard women’s rights. It could be different from person to person but it’s mainly to show the government that women won’t just be passive when laws try to force women to just be a submissive baby maker.
Supportive men could do the same to maybe accellerate the cause until reasonable rights in the region are established for healthy childbirth and sex.
I see. Think it’s an overkill and people can use contraception instead of going full separate, but there is kind of a point in there
Contraception is never 100% effective, which is one of the many reasons why abortion is necessary healthcare. I’ve seen many misogynists suggest women should just keep their legs closed. Seems like that’s what they’re deciding to do.
Sure, but effective enough to make a drastic change to fertility rate.
Still, I see where you’re going with it
I genuinely believe there are trolls who throw shit like this at the wall just to see if it will stick.
It’s sad when people actually mess up their families because they listen to trolls on the internet.
No one wants to have families right now, especially women, you homunculus.
That’s not true.
You should spend more time off of these forums so you don’t have such a myopic view of the world.
Lmao okay boomer
Understandable.
But sweaering of ALL men is neither healthy nor realistic and the 4B movement is not really helping the issue. Plua the movement is extremely transphobic and essentialist. Its just TERFs doing a thing again…
A more practical solution: Dont date MAGA and leave them if need be. Take the children from them as well. They deserve scorn for voting in a dictator, just because they cant get laid. And they deserve to be reminded on how parhetic they are for all of it every single das until they change.
Downvoted for advocating taking men’s children away.
Agreed. I also can understand the feelings behind this, but it seems to ignore that quite a number of women voted for Trump.
Bingo. My wife won’t vote for a woman president because she, not me, thinks that they’re too emotional. I know a decent amount of women in the workplace that feel the same way. I voted for Kamala because Trump is a paranoid narcissist that is a thief, liar, and can’t be trusted and she was a darn sight better to keep the boat moving predictably forward.
Women are too emotional to be president? Shit man, maga and their current figurehead are fueled by extremely volatile emotion, no matter how much they crow about facts vs feelings. Rage is an emotion, and it’s what’s driven the movement for years before it even had a name. Citing emotionality as a reason not to elect a woman is just an excuse—a very poor one, at that—and everyone knows it.
Hey, you’re preaching to the choir. Lol.
Your wife is a moron
I hope that made you feel better.
I hope you realize your wife is a moron and a fascist.
Never said she voted for Trump. In fact, we don’t tell each other who we vote for. So yeah, try again. She’s typically strongly independent and really hates the two party system. RCV FTW.
My wife won’t vote for a woman president because she, not me, thinks that they’re too emotional.
This is directly from the Right’s playbook. She’s a moronic fascist.
Talk to her, and teach her the error of her ways. If you continue to be an apologist for a fascist, you might as well give up and join their ranks.
Needs to be said mate
Preaching to the choir doesn’t do any good. Just makes that person feel better about themselves.
They should feel bad
It’s not about feeling better. It’s about calling out bad behavior (i.e. misogyny).
That’s rich. How could one ever think in this election that Kamala was the emotional one. She made one joke about his crowd size and he went completely off the rails.
Got me. I think Trump is incredibly unstable.
There’s nothing inherently unhealthy about being asexual.
This is not just being asexual. This incel behaviour.
It’s called celibacy, and it’s voluntary in this context.
Abstains from sex is celibacy. That’s 1B.
There are 4Bs
The Bs are celibacy, no marriage, no children, no dating. None of that is incel behavior.
Incel = involuntary celibacy
These women are volunteering to be celibate.
Wow you don’t understand what incels are at all do you?
4B isn’t about asexuality, it’s about abstinence. Not the same thing.
From a physiological standpoint? Seems virtually the same to me. The other guy said it was unhealthy. Is there anything unhealthy about abstinence?
Asexuality doesn’t have the desire for sex.
This is abstinence for those that would like to have sex but don’t feel safe.
Physiologically it means that abstinence produces stress.
So yes, there are physiological differences, even if they arent measurable on the short term but instead of the long term.
They’re not necessarily the same, there’s two major differences between them physiologicaly:
- Asexual people date others unless they are also aromantic (well aromantic people also can date but it’s less common)
- Some asexual people can and do have sex
The difference is that one is identity and the other is a choice.
Yes, no one is arguing that. The context was there’s no difference physiologically speaking. That was the premise.
I think the distinction is important to some people.
I have enough respect for those people to know they are smart enough to understand the distinction.
The problem is that some men will literally tell a woman anything they want to hear until they’re in bed. They will lie their ass off and avoid political discussion until after the proposal, then they’ll suggest maybe she could cook a little more
This has literally been a thing for like… 60 years
B: wanna get a drink some time ?
G: no, I’m 4b . No dating, No men no sex no marriage
B: oh ok, sorry to have bothered you
G : Did you hear me ???
B: yes
G: I SAID NO DATING NO MEN NINSEX NI MARRIAGE.
B: yes, sorry to have bothered you have a good day
G: YOU CANNOT JUST WALK AWAY FROM ME. I SAID NO SEX NI MEN No DATING NO MARRIAGE .
G: GET back HERE YOU FUCKING PATRIACH BASTARD
what the fuck is this
fanfic
It’s funny, switch the roles and you’ll have a situation that actually happens outside of shower conversations.
“Young men expect sex, but they also want us to not be able to have access to abortion,” Thomas told The Post. “They can’t have both. Young women don’t want to be intimate with men who don’t fight for women’s rights; it’s showing they don’t respect us.”
Sounds reasonable and fair to me.
In over 50% of America’s land area Rapists get to pick the mother of their child.
Flee red states.
The only why they’ll learn is if the rational people leave. The whole fill strategy will never work because red states need you more than you need them.
Flee red states!
Project 2025 advocates for tracking of child barring age women and girls. They will turn you into brood sows the moment they get a chance and justify it as the moral good.
Flee red states!
Blue states aren’t perfect but we at least know what freedom is and don’t need a 2000 yeast old book to decide what we should do next.
Fleeing my state isn’t an option. Besides, my state didn’t used to be red. A lot of states flipped or at least went from purple to red. So it’s not even a guarantee if you uproot your entire family and life that you get to stay blue.
I feel so demoralized when this comes up, as if it’s my own fault I’m living somewhere with terrible laws. I voted. I got other people to vote. I changed a few minds on abortion (not easy to do!). I don’t have the money or resources to start somewhere else, and we’re all about to have less money.
Are you willing to risk your mother’s, sisters, and daughters bodily autonomy on a under performing political party?
I’m not saying leaving will be easy. And I’m not saying it paradise and blue States. But I am saying red states don’t deserve you. Start making a plan at least because they won’t stop.
It’s my bodily autonomy. I’m a woman of child-bearing age. I even want to make a child sometime in the next four years. I’m risking my health. I can’t move. I will end up broke with zero resources in another state, with no job, and my husband will need to start his career from scratch if we move. We just can’t afford it. Plus wherever we move, we’ll be separated from both our families who are local here. And again, even if we move, wherever we start over could just be red in two election cycles anyway. Moving isn’t the answer.
One in five women in the United States experienced completed or attempted rape during their lifetime.
The chances of having a miscarriage is 1 in 4 pregnancies.
Multiply those statistics for every girl and women in your family.
Add in the fact that red states have disproportionately more sexual violence than blue states.
Are those odds you are willing to take?
No one is say moving well be easy. But you can start saving, planning, and applying for positions in safer areas. (politically, economically, and socially.) You don’t have to just move your core family. Everyone that cares about women’s rights can move too. If migrant women with no job, no prospects, no money, and no path to citizenship to receive services can do it, so can you.
Red states don’t deserve you. Every day you play the odds
An awful lot of generalizing there.
It’s talking about people who support trump. But you can’t only target them as people will just hide their political views to get laid.
Did the hat fit you?
I voted for Kamala thanks.
Even incels can vote for Kamala
You really nailed me. What a joke this place is.
That’s not helping.
Dig a hole speed run any%
It doesn’t seem generalized at all to me.
- A series of laws are passed that make this thing riskier.
- Do less of the risky thing.
- Make it clear why.
What’s the problem?
Hmm so this movement excludes men that want abortion to be available then? Missed that.
It’s about risk management, first and foremost.
I suppose you might get a second look from a 4B-practitioner if you had a vasectomy (i.e. to remove the risk of pregnancy), but I’m a man so I can only speculate on this. And of course this isn’t such a great option if you do plan to have kids some day. Then again, despite the anti-abortion rhetoric of “don’t have sex if you aren’t ready to reproduce”, planned pregnancies are much more dangerous under abortion bans.
Would you mind saying what you mean here? I’d like for you to explain your thought a little more.
I’m responding to “it doesn’t seem generalized at all”. If that were the case it would not be a movement based on absolutes that apply to all men
It most certainly doesn’t exclude anyone unless you think someone refusing to have sex with you is an act of exclusion.
Most of all of us are refusing to have sex with you at this very moment.
This seems to assume that I’m concerned this will impact me. I’m not, at all. Not slightly. It wouldn’t even impact me if I were even single, which I’m not.
I could probably put out an ad on Craigslist offering to pay someone like this for an interview and still never meet such a person or even get an email back about it.
I think the subtext implies that you can have sex with people that don’t suck. This is the female counterpart to, “don’t stick your dick in crazy”.
I mean the “no sex, no kids, no marriage” slogan seems not that.
I think they are more saying none of that with people who don’t respect our right to our own bodies
That is mentioned nowhere in this argument. But the credo of the movement is:
No sex. No dating. No marrying men. No children.
This sounds pretty intentionally absolute in nature
Taking into context that it’s to protest people against reproductive rights, I take it that it’s to punish and withhold specifically from those people.
Did really some of the American women need for Trump to be elected twice before learning this? Isn’t this supposed to be common sense, not just only for women?
Either everyone but you is stupid, or you’re missing something.
Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t understand why a movement is necessary to understand that you shouldn’t have sex with people that, in your opinion, suck
I don’t think anyone involved thinks she’s talking about every single young man. Well, except you, of course
I’m definitely not young. I’ve pretending to know me though.
I’ve pretending to know me though.
You’ve what? Had a stroke?
“Young men…” wow I wonder where that idea came from
Jesus Fucking Christ, do we literally have to have women say things like:
“Young men – not all, just some, well in some areas most, but a lot of young men – expect…”
This tiptoeing bullshit to not anger some fragile men is insane. I lived as a straight man for over 40 years and this new idea that men are somehow put upon whenever a woman brings up being objectified, or has an issues with interactions with /takes a breath some, but not all, just a large amount, enough to be traumatizing, particularly as it’s systemic to the patriarchy, men.
This is ridiculous semantic bullshit in response to women feeling like objects and pushing back.
We’re better than this, and I’m tired of watching us act absolutely horrible whenever women point out systemic, extremely frequent issues they have with men, and have to inch around it so as to not break our fragile egos.
Women need to say, “Well, not every man is a rapist, but every person who raped me was a man, amd when I tried to speak up, almost every man told me he needed more evidence, that was an extreme claim that could ruin that man’s life, and when I tried to call police, they were made also of men who also rape and commit domestic violence at high rates, and when I went to court the judge was a Trump appointeee… So I guess really no men are rapists because the system doesn’t allow us to label them. Or maybe that makes all of you dangerous.”
I teared up a bit reading your comment, I’m so sorry you all go through this, and continue to go through this.
The worst part is a lot of the men saying this shit, even here in this thread, consider themselves ‘Leftist’. They know it’s the wealthy causing fighting amongst the poors to distract, and yet still these men fall for it. They think there’s some ‘women’s agenda’ coming for them and never once look back and think to themselves ‘wow, thank god they want equality and not revenge.’
Just the word “most” or “some” would avoid this whole conversation. Why does it have to come to this every time?
Why does it have to come to this every time?
I don’t know, why do men require people to use extra words not to hurt their feelings?
“Young men expect sex, but they also want us to not be able to have access to abortion,” Thomas told The Post. “They can’t have both. Young women don’t want to be intimate with men who don’t fight for women’s rights; it’s showing they don’t respect us.”
See, they even included parts like that, and still people are here whining about it.
My feelings aren’t hurt by the presence of people who hate me.
But I will call a spade a spade. A person too lazy to add the word “some” to their statement does hate all men. Can’t be bothered with a syllable to honor them, and that’s hate.
I agree. It’s like the whole “Not all men” deal: nitpicking the details of the phrasing instead of tackling the root issue. You’re only fighting those symptoms that affect you directly, not the root cause.
The day I have someone yelling in my face that I’m to blame for some other man’s rape is the day I’ll argue about that issue. Until then, let’s focus on the actual problem: In this case (some) young men being pieces of garbage.
Now he’s just worried that they’re talking about him. Which they probably are considering his immediate defensive reaction.
Magats on the one way road to demographic suicide unless they learn to like gay sex and hope hard for some crazy evolution…
The fuck?
Are you saying women who support 4B used to date MAGAts? Seems like the women talking about 4B were already selective enough to only date liberals/leftists/etc.
Don’t mind me I’m pissy. But no I was saying Trump supporters will likely be the recipients of this treatment and other than changing course or learning to procreate in the absence of women will decline, in my dream anyway.
45% of women voters were for Trump. More young women voted for Trump in 2024 than in 2020. I don’t think this movement is going to affect Republicans at all.
Pissy and forgetting basic facts. Aight I suck
Sorry, not trying to antagonize you. This sucks. Thanks for not lashing out at me.
Nonono no antagonizing felt. I don’t know why I thought that my last response had a jocular sarcastic self deprecating tone. People can’t read my mind, and I have a bad habit of being vague in my word choices at times.
We Good!
Edit also I need to chill myself rough day.
No, your tone came across, I just started worrying about my own tone. And I think we all need to chill out. Stop looking at what’s happened in the past 10-20 years and start appreciating the progress we’ve made in the last 100, and thinking about how we’ll make the next step.
fuck them…
It’s always amazing how many men out themselves in these threads. Immediately angry and defensive. There’s no greater way to know that you’re exactly the kind of man these women are worried about than having that reaction.
In this thread a few people left mild and fair criticism and immediately got accused of being conservative. Some I recognized as having specifically progressive ideas in other threads.
I think there are fair criticisms of this for sure. Saying them out loud does not mean you have anything but the opinion you say. And now watch, I’ll be dog piled and accused of hating women or whatever.
Which isn’t true at all, it just seems kind of weird to deny yourself the pleasure of sex because… I guess… you don’t trust yourself to find a man who isn’t a piece of shit? Either that or you somehow believe such a person doesn’t exist? The only other option is it’s about being spiteful in a way that won’t help anyone at all. Conservative men are already having trouble getting women and you aren’t going to turn them liberal by not having sex with anyone. For this to ever work you’d need a large percentage of women to participate, which obviously isn’t going to happen.
Reactionaries suck and I’d hate to date one
Guys always ask me how to meet women. I say, " It’s easy, be polite and learn how to communicate." None of them succeed.
The bar is so low and yet they almost all fail. It’s down right scary. Just be polite and talk like a human being. Oh, and guys, don’t send the d pic unless asked. It really doesn’t do what you think it does.
The “bar” argument doesn’t exist. Plenty of women date shit bags. lol
The issue is, they go with sole intention of meeting a partner. Women rightfully have their guard up. If you just interact with someone in a hobby you both share interest in, she’s more likely to be into you. But not after a fucking week for crying out loud!
What? You mean that awkward pose with us choking it like “the dog having something in their mouth,” isn’t cool? Also me say hi then dick pic doesn’t get you going?
Maybe it’s you that’s the issue?
Also, you can get any woman with a net.
Realy? Has Animal Crossing lied to us?
Dweeb lord equating a game to real life.
Sure, but I get women consensually.
It’s really not that hard, I don’t get it. The only conclusion that I’ve been able to come to is that guys think being empathetic, polite and communicative will get them friend-zoned or something. That they have to be pushy about it or the gal will just be like, “you’re such a sweet guy, I think you’re a great friend”. You know, friends talk, partners fuck, or something like that.
Does anyone actually say that? I swear I’ve heard it or something similar before…
…Anyway, no, idiot, you’re getting friend-zoned because they’re just not into you that way. Being aggressive just gets you shut down faster too because you come off as impatient or desperate, or that you’re trying to do the song and dance because you have to, not because you want to. I don’t wanna be around a guy like that. That can be very concerning because it can indicate that all you want is sex and you’re just trying to find the right buttons to press on the “sex machine”. I get it, sometimes you just wanna fuck; but I’m a
dragonhuman being, not a sex machine.But… If you want a reason why you shouldn’t be concerned about being friend-zoned: personally I’m more likely to trust and view someone favorably if they’re friends with someone I already know, or they’re surrounded by people who have good things to say about them (especially if they’re enbies and/or women). Doesn’t mean everyone’s like that, but if you have lady friends who enjoy just hanging out with you then that tells me that you’re way more likely to respect me, treat me like a dra… *cough* human, and that I’m probably going to be safe around you. Those are good things. Those are things I need to feel before I can feel anything else. Again, I can’t speak for everyone, but there’s a glimpse into how my feelings seem to work, and why I don’t think you really need to be scared of the “friend-zone”.
Also, when it comes to wanting to “just fuck”; I’m waaaayy more open to that idea if we’re already good friends and neither of us are dating someone. Not everyone is like that, I’m probably kinda unusual in that regard, but… yeah.
There’s a clear difference between showing sexual interest and being pushy that I don’t think your post considers.
If you’re dating a women and don’t show any signs of sexual interest she absolutely will be thinking “this guy isn’t interested” and move on.
I don’t think it’s surprising to say that women also are often uninterested in being friends, but it’s still often an expectation that the men will make the first move.
It’s one of the fine lines and grey areas that needs to be trodden in life if you want a satisfying relationship.
I literally just said that what you’re talking about turns me off, and now you’re telling me that you know better than I do?
Fuck being polite: go shove it up your ass.
I know I generalised but I think what I said is mostly true and I’m just as entitled as you are to put my point of view forward, sorry that I have a different opinion.
I’d like to make it clear that I’m not saying it’s OK to be pushy but making a distinction about showing sexual interest that can sometimes be a grey area and a fine line to tread.
If you want to go on a hundred dates with the same person before you’re OK with sexual escalation to make sure someone has pure intentions or whatever, you do you, but it’s not typical and I expect that they’ll move on after enough time of wondering why they’re dating someone that appears frigid or un-interested in sex.
One of my best friends said “if I’m on a third date with a guy and he’s not made a move, he’s probably got a tiny penis”. I know that’s a horrible thing to say and to hear, but it’s true. Most women expect men to make a move at some point and if they don’t, she’ll be wondering what’s wrong.
There’s no need for the hostility, though given the election I understand you’re probably just lashing out and it’s not personal. I hope you feel better soon.
If you want to go on a hundred dates with the same person before sexual escalation to make sure someone has pure intentions or whatever, you do you, but it’s not typical and I expect that they’ll move on after enough time of wondering why they’re dating someone that’s not interested in sex.
No one said hundreds of dates. Hell, if we mesh well enough then it might only take a single date. However, coming up to me and being like, “hey girl, wanna fuck” is only gonna get you somewhere if I either already know (and trust) you fairly well, you have lady friends who I trust and can vouch for your character, or you’re a smoking-hot, literal, honest-to-god anthropomorphic animal person. That’s what I’m talking about. And no, I’m sorry, you’re not a hot dragon-man. As much as I like to pretend they exist, they really don’t.
You don’t even have to say it out loud, if that’s the vibe you’re giving off then I’ll get sketched out. If I feel like you just wanna fuck, then the thought that’ll be going through my mind is: “can I trust what this person says, or are they only saying things to figure out how to get me to open my legs? Am I safe to put myself in their arms and let them fuck me, or should I be concerned that they won’t stop if I tell them to? Will they respect my boundaries and let them shrink naturally as our trust and relationship grows, or should I be concerned that they might injure, abuse or even kill me if I say ‘no’?”
One of my best friends said “if I’m on a third date with a guy and he’s not made a move, he’s probably got a tiny penis”. I know that’s a horrible thing to say and to hear, but it’s true.
*sigh* Here’s the thing though, women who say shit like that really aren’t worth your time. That’s a red flag, dude. That’s a sign that your relationship is going to be potentially based on an unstable foundation. Physical appearance is only temporary. What if you get into a bad car wreck and your penis has to be removed? A girl who’s only about dick size is going to give it some time before walking away. A girl who’s about you will probably be willing to come up with creative solutions to sexy problems and find ways around your lack of manhood (ever considered macguyvering a dragon dildo into a male-compatible strap-on?).
I like a guy who’s willing to be vulnerable, who’s willing to take his time and so on. My view is that’s probably going to result in a much happier relationship than someone who judges based on penis size. Maybe it’s just because I’m not in my 20s anymore and most of the horny teenage hormones have worn off at this point (not that they did me any good, but that’s another story), maybe it’s because I grew up with a Dad who doesn’t like to talk about his feelings and was nearly impossible to read.
However, I’d much rather have a guy who’s willing to talk about how he’s feeling than a guy who wants to fuck on the first date. The latter isn’t going to be able to give me a shoulder to cry on, but the former might (yanno, after he’s done crying on mine lol; which is not a problem). The latter probably won’t share my interests, but the former might.
And you know what, maybe you’re right.
Maybe I’m the weirdo here, for thinking that someone who cares that much about your dick size is shallow as fuck and not worth your time. Small peepee just means there’s all the more reason to get creative with sexy time.
Maybe I’m the weird one for thinking that there’s a difference between a romantic relationship and “a friend you like to fuck” (aka “friends with benefits”).
Maybe I’m the weirdo for thinking people need to be more chill about sex for this exact reason; because I suspect that many people think that the feeling you get from sex or lust is what love is.
There’s no need for the hostility, though I understand you’re probably just lashing out and it’s not personal. I hope you feel better soon.
It’s the “I know better than you” that gets to me. Maybe you didn’t mean that, if so then I apologize. There are a lot of people here, however, who seem to believe they know more about what a woman likes than women do; or they believe that a woman doing what she wants with her body is discriminatory.
For those with a bad understanding of women: women get horny and lonely too, you really think women aren’t gonna struggle with this themselves? The only reason I don’t think I’ll personally struggle with it is because I’m only kiiinda straight lmao. I have other options. Furthermore, however, do you really believe that women don’t know what they want? Maybe they just don’t want you because you throw up all kinds of red flags.
Learn to be empathetic, communicative, caring and respectful. You really don’t want the shallow girls who only care about dick size. They’ll just dump you the moment a guy with a bigger dick comes along or, at the very least, you probably won’t have a very fulfilling relationship. Sex shouldn’t be the goal you’re striving for, sex should be something that happens along the way; and guys who act like it’s the former are a huge turn-off for me.
You make good points. You’re getting the wrong end of the stick but I don’t think it’s worth trying to explaine myself further.
Well said. I never worried about the friend zone bc I made my intentions known, “I like you and I want to date.” If she says she’s not into me then that’s it. 9/10 that women will be my “wingman” to find someone that likes me that way.
Not really… from personal experience, I couldn’t find a single woman to date or show interest until I was 25. I was and still am super nice and polite, apparently too much for most.
I fully believe I am just ugly, and it is what it is. After being rejected for so long and never having the chance to have those experiences growing up, it did leave me in a bad place for a while.
Good news is I did meet someone at 25 and we’re married now over 10 years and have 2 kids. This was also right before the rise of dating apps, which I wonder what impact they would have had if given the chance to use them.
Being too nice can definitely be a turn off for women, all though you’re never supposed to say it, if you put them on a pedestal it can lead them to think that they can do better. I know that sounds horrible to say, but it’s mostly true.
A lot of women like “manly men”, in a world where gender roles are being broken down it’s another thing you’re not supposed to say, but it’s objectively true.
Natural beauty is pot luck, although it’s true that “ugly” guys can do a lot to scrub up and become attractive in other ways. Statistically speaking, 80% of women want the top 20% of men, from that you can extrapolate that their are a lot of people in relationships that are settling. Another harsh truth, but that’s life.
So in short, that’s what happens to most of us. Women chase the top 20% which most of us aren’t, then when they start getting worried about getting older and becoming a spinster, they settle. You’re probably a lot less ugly than you think and a lot more normal!
Using statistics and generalizing about women wanting only “top” men is very manosphere of you. Incel forums ban you so you had to come stink up Lemmy with the steaming shit that comes from your mouth or something?
It’s factual. The source is Tinder, 80% of women are only swiping on the top 20% of men and I believe that extrapolates to real life, I also don’t think it’s surprising, I understand why anyone would want an attractive mate. Sorry that upsets you.
Tinder as a source is hilarious.
Whatever the source, I don’t think it’s surprising that women are a lot more selective than men, it makes a huge amount of sense in evolutionary terms.
And given that a small percentage of men are getting chased by the majority of women, it’s unsurprising that they’re used to getting screwed over, causing all men to get cast with the same aspersion.
be polite
oh thank god!
Learn how to communicate
4B doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me
Communicate and talk are two different things. People talk to each other to get what they want. Communication means you have to listen and give a shit. So many guys talk for 1 reason, sex. Women want sex to but don’t want an asshole that treats them like shit afterwards. Some guys can’t get that and think women should be blessed in their presents.
Oh I’m really good at the listening part.
I don’t like the talking part. That’s the part I’m not good at. Or likely will ever be, which is ok. It’s scary.
Ill believe it when I see it, half these women have the most conservative SO you’ve ever met and tells them they’re good people at the end of hard days. Also these particular women are transphobes, so fuck them.
Women also voted for trump.
But Transphobes? Really? That’s where you draw the line? This is EXACTLY how the right pushed women to fight for their “identity” and turn against trans.
If you generise them like that and try to diminish what biological woman is, you bet your ass someone will use it to turn those would would be your ally against you.
And if you speak up on Politics Lemmy about feminism, or fight back against sexist men as a woman, mod Jordan Lund will build a case to ban you. He is a fascist.
Self-selective removal of oneself and those of probable left-leaning male partners from the gene pool* is certainly one strategy left-leaning women could try in the fight for a political environment where their rights are protected and progress further. Probably a terrible strategy, but certainly one that could be chosen.
I respect any individual’s bodily autonomy and am not trying to make a statement in favor of men having a right to access or anything like that. It’s just an illogical movement if the goal is a society that has more individuals likely to support women’s rights - the gamble that thirsty men of the left will somehow save the day or that it would affect men on the right is kind of silly unless we’re assuming that there is a statistically meaningful amount of (secretly) left leaning women out there choosing right wing men as partners. (I wonder if anyone has tried to focus a campaign on seeing if the latter group exists in a sizable amount and can be convinced to be vote left - somebody should look into that and see how it works out. /s)
It’s almost like 4B is something that the right wing would push to further their current advantage in household size in the US…
*I am not seriously implying politics are a matter of genetics (though parents commonly pass down their politics to children in their household via social means), but plenty of people on the right do believe in their own “good genes” versus the “bad genes” of the left and I’m leaning on their perspective for sarcastic effect here.
Yeah, the whole concept of 4B only works if a vast majority of women are on the same page, and given the results from this election, they clearly are not.
It was stolen.
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anti-natalism rules
It’s a person’s decision whether to have sex, get married or date someone. They don’t need to justify that to anyone. No one criticizes men for choosing celibacy or choosing to remain single. But women don’t have that priviledge, so they have to justify themselves and still they will recieve criticism and hate from men just for choosing to exercise their personal freedom and live their life according to their values.
I, for one, criticize incels regularly
But incels are involuntarily celibate (per their reasoning), even if they don’t understand that they’re wrong.
No one criticizes men for choosing celibacy or choosing to remain single.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I have to take issue with this. Men do get criticized for choosing not to have sex, or choosing not to marry. A man who chooses not to have sex constantly has his manhood questioned. And any single man who has not been asked when he’s gonna find a nice girl and settle down is a man without family.
No one criticizes men for choosing celibacy or choosing to remain single.
conservative parents enter the chat
