I’ll just keep buying AMD thanks.
I’m sure these will be great options in 5 years when the dust finally settles on the scalper market and they’re about to roll out RTX 6xxx.
Scalpers were basically non existent in the 4xxx series. They’re not some boogieman that always raises prices. They work under certain market conditions, conditions which don’t currently exist in the GPU space, and there’s no particular reason to think this generation will be much different than the last.
Maybe on the initial release, but not for long after.
Scalpers were basically non existent in the 4xxx series.
Bull fucking shit. I was trying to buy a 4090 for like a year. Couldn’t find anything even approaching retail. Most were $2.3k+.
The 4090 basically never went for MSRP until Q4 2024… and now it’s OOS everywhere.
nobody scalped the 4080 because it was shit price/perf. 75% of the price of a 4090 too… so why not just pay the extra 25% and get the best?
the 4070ti (aka base 4080) was too pricey to scalp given that once you start cranking up the price then why not pay the scalper fee for a 4090.
Things below that are not scalp worthy.
The 4090 basically never went for MSRP until Q4 2024
This had nothing to do with scalpers though. Just pure corporate greed.
I’m not so sure. Companies were definitely buying many up, but they typically stick to business purchasing channels like CDW/Dell/HP etc.
Consumer boxed cards sold by retailers might have went to some small businesses/startups and independent developers but largely they were picked up by scalpers or gamers.
I work in IT and have never went to a store to buy a video card unless it was an emergency need to get a system functional again. It’s vastly preferred to buy things through a VAR where warranties and support are much more robust than consumer channels.
No thanks; I’m good. Still feeling the sting over buying my 4080 Super last spring. Also it’s doing me just fine for my work and for games.
The far cry benchmark is the most telling. Looks like it’s around a 15% uplift based on that.
About two months ago I upgraded from 3090 to 4090. On my 1440p I basically couldn’t tell. I play mostly MMOs and ARPGs.
Shouldn’t have upgraded then….
Those genres aren’t really known for having brutal performance requirements. You have to play the bleeding edge stuff that adds prototype graphics postprocessing in their ultra or optional settings.
When you compare non RT performance the frame delta is tiny. When you compare RT it’s a lot bigger. I think most of the RT implementations are very flawed today and that it’s largely snake oil so far, but some people are obsessed.
I will say you can probably undervolt / underclock / power throttle that 4090 and get great frames per watt.
By rendering only 25% of the frames we made DLSS4 100% faster than DLSS3. Which only renders 50% of the frames! - NVIDIA unironically
You living in the past, rendering 100% of the frames is called Brute Force Rendering, that’s for losers.
With only 2k trump coins our new graphic card can run Cyberpunk 2077, a game from 4 years ago, at 30 fps with RTX ON but you see with DLSS and all the other
crapmagic we can run at 280 FPS!!! Everything is blurry and ugly as fuck but look at the numbers!!!
Okay losers, time for you to spend obscene amounts to do your part in funding the terrible shit company nvidia.
Way better investment to buy their stock rather than one of their GPUs, IMO.
Okay loser, so what GPU should we buy then?
A used 2080.
That would be a downgrade for me. And you know, same company…
And if you buy it used, nVidia doesn’t get any of that money.
Sure, if your understanding of economy is based off of a lemonade stand a dollar a cup…
If I buy a used card from an individual, nVidia doesn’t get a penny. How is that complicated?
Ok…they do. They get increased market share, which is measurable and valuable to shareholders, increasing stock value and increasing company liquidity.
“Used” is not “same company” because you’re not buying from said company.
You still gotta use their shitty NVIDIA experience app (bloated with ads that make NVIDIA money when you open it), and you buying a used NVIDIA card increases demand (and thus prices) on all NVIDIA cards.
If you are a gamer and not doing AI stuff then buying a non-NVIDIA card is entirely an option.
GeForce Experience app is dead thank goodness with no account or sign in required anymore.
Good fucking riddance
NVCleanInstall is our friend :)
Market share is not as simple as measuring directly sold products.
The performance improvements claims are a bit shady as they compare the old FG technique which only creates one frame for every legit frame, with the next gen FG which can generate up to 3.
All Nvidia performance plots I’ve seen mention this at the bottom, making comparison very favorable to the 5000 series GPU supposedly.
Edit:
Thanks for the heads up.
I really don’t like that new Frame interpolation tech and think it’s almost only useful to marketers but not for actual gaming.
At least I wouldn’t touch it with any competitive game.
Hopefully we will get third party benchmarks soon without the bullshit perfs from Nvidia.
Yes, fuck all this frame generation and upscaling bs.
I wouldn’t say fuck upscaling entirely, especially for 4k it can be useful on older cards. FSR made it possible to play Hitman on my 1070. But yeah, if I’m going for 4k I probably want very good graphics too, eg. in RDR2, and I don’t want any upscaling there. I’m so used to native 4k that I immediately spot if it’s anything else - even in Minecraft.
And frame generation is only useful in non-competetive games where you already have over 60 FPS, otherwise it will still be extremely sluggish, - in which case, it’s not realy useful anymore.
The point is, hardware is powerful enough for native 4K, but instead of that power being used properly, games are made quickly and then upscaling technology is slapped on at the end. DLSS has become a crutch and Nvidia are happy to keep pushing it and keeping a reason for you to buy their GPUs every generation, because otherwise we are at diminishing returns already.
It’s useful for use on older hardware, yes, I have no issue with that, I have issue with it being used on hardware that could otherwise easily run 4K 120FPS+ with standard rasterization and being marketed as a ‘must’.
From personal experience, I’d say the end result for framegen is hit or miss. In some cases, you get a much smoother framerate without any noticeable downsides, and in others, your frame times are all over the place and it makes the game look choppy. For example, I couldn’t play CP2077 with franegen at all. I had more frames, but in reality it felt like I actually had fewer. With Ark Survival Ascended, I’m not seeing any downside and it basically doubled my framerate.
Upscaling, I’m generally sold on. If you try to upscale from 1080p to 4K, it’s usually pretty obvious, but you can render at 80% of the resolution and upscale the last 20% and get a pretty big framerate bump while getting better visuals than rendering at 100% with reduced settings.
That said, I would rather have better actual performance than just perceived performance.
Eh I’m pretty happy with the upscaling. I did several tests and upscaling won out for me personally as a happy middle ground to render Hunt Showdown at 4k vs running at 2k with great FPA and no upscaling or 4k with no upscaling but bad FPS.
Legitimate upscaling is fine, but this DLSS/FSR ML upscaling is dogshit and just introduces so many artifacts. It has become a crutch for developers, so they dont build their games properly anymore. Hardware is so strong and yet games perform worse than they did 10 years ago.
I mean this is FSR upscaling that I’m referring to. I did several comparisons and determined that it looked significantly better to upscaling using FSR from 2K -> 4k than it did to run at 2k.
Hunt has other ghosting issues but they’re related to CryEngine’s fake ray tracing technology (unrelated to the Nvidia/AMD ray tracing) and they happen without any upscaling applied.
Too bad FSR will be AMD hardware exclusive from here on out
On the site with the performance graphs, Farcry and Plague Tale should be more representative, if you want to ignore FG. That’s still only two games, with first-party benchmarks, so wait for third-party anyway.
I’m waiting for that new Intel gear.
My last new graphics card was a 1080, I‘ve bought second hand since then and will keep doing that cause these prices are…
I’m still using that 1080Ti and currently see no reason to upgrade.
Still using a 1080 Ti and I definitely have lots of reasons to upgrade, but I’m not willing to spread the cheeks that wide.
FF VII rebirth will require an RTX 20
but I think that’s down to lack of optimization
Rebirth also says it requires 12 gigs of vram, my 3080 is crying.
Nvidia Core i5.
LOL, their demo shows Cyberpunk running at a mere 27fps on the 5090 with DLSS off. Is that supposed to sell me on this product?
Their whole gaming business model now is encouraging devs to stick features that have no hope of rendering quickly in order to sell this new frame generation rubbish.
The 4090 gets like sub 20fps without DLSS and stuff. Seems like a good improvement.
Barely
50% improvement not enough for you?
Whether it’s 50% or 200% it’s pointless if the avg FPS can’t even reach the bare minimum of 30.
What does that have to do with anything?
Not every game has frame gen… not everybody wanna introduce lag to input. So 50% is 100% sketchy marketing. You can keep your 7 frames, Imma wait for 6090
Both figures are without DLSS, FG, whatever. Just native 4k with Path Tracing enabled, that’s why it’s so low.
The sketchy marketing is comparing a 5070 with a 4090, but that’s not what this is about.
Like I said, I base performance without frame gen. 5090 is not twice as powerful as a 4090, which they advertise, without frame gen.
More Shenanigans. Moooore !
They’re not even pretending to be affordable any more.
Unfortunately, that’s the anti-scalper countermeasure. Crippling their crypto mining potential didn’t impact scalping very much, so they increased the price with the RTX 40 series. The RTX 40s were much easier to find than the RTX 30s were, so here we are for the RTX 50s. They’re already on the edge of what people will pay, so they’re less attractive to scalpers. We’ll probably see an initial wave of scalped 3090s for $3500-$4000, then it will drop off after a few months and the market will mostly have un-scalped ones with fancy coolers for $2200-$2500 from Zotac, MSI, Gigabyte, etc.
The switch from proof of work to proof of stake in ETH right before the 40 series launch was the primary driver of the increased availability.
Not really a countermeasure, but the scalping certainly proved that there is a lot of people willing to buy their stuff at high prices.
The existence of scalpers means demand exceeds supply. Pricing them this high is a countermeasures against scalpers…in that Nvidia wants to make the money that scalpers would have made .
No, it’s a direct result of observing the market during those periods and seeing the lemmings beating down doors to pay 600-1000 dollars over MSRP. They realized the market is stupid and will bear the extra cost.
Buy 800 of those or buy a house. Pick.
I can’t do either of those. I chose Option C, a hospital visit.
Look at money bags over here. He can go to the HoSpItAl.
Nvidia is just doing what every monopoly does, and AMD is just playing into it like they did on CPUs with Intel. They’ll keep competing for price performance for a few years then drop something that drops them back on top (or at least near it).
I think it’s going to be a long time before I upgrade my graphics card with these prices.
Two problems, they are big ones:
- The hardware is expensive for a marginal improvement
- The games coming out that best leverage the features like Ray tracing are also expensive and not good
Nvidia claims the 5070 will give 4090 performance. That’s a huge generation uplift if it’s true. Of course, we’ll have to wait for independent benchmarks to confirm that.
The best ray tracing games I’ve seen are applying it to older games, like Quake II or Minecraft.
I expect they tell us it can achieve that because under the hood DLSS4 gives it more performance if enabled.
But is that a fair comparison?
They’ve already said it’s all because of DLSS 4. The 5070 needs the new 4x FG to match the 4090, although I don’t know if the 4090 has the “old” 2x FG enabled, probably not.
