I can’t be the only one who struggled to read that, and for general accessibility purposes since I’m already here:
Image ID:
andy1011000 Proton CEO posted:
“People honestly seem to forget that I live in Switzerland, where Republican/Democrat doesn’t mean anything, and Trump isn’t even on our ballot to be voted for…”
Onyx376. replied:
“The point is that fighting for a more just and equal society is not just about fighting for the fundamental right to privacy but also for all other fundamental rights, including individual rights and life. When you, as the CEO of a company that starts from these principles, nod positively to whatever action a political figure like Trump, who is known for always flagrantly putting his private interests ahead of those of his own nation, makes speeches about eliminating minorities, hurting their rights as citizens and flirting with Nazi movements, it is understandable that members of the privacy community are disappointed as this reveals a little about who is being the face of a company that should follow contrary principles. But now we really know what “freedom” means to you.”
Doing the Lord’s work right here. I absolutely cannot stand screenshots of desktop apps.
Mobile screenshots will be readable on both mobile and desktop.
But desktop screenshots are only readable on desktop.
Glad I could help…
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Doesn’t seem to be the case here, but could it be due to subpixel rendering?
It renders fine, it’s just a pain to read due the wide aspect ratio. Either it’s too small or you have to scroll horizontal for reach line, or you have to flip your phone. None of it it is optimal.
Good bot
Ridiculous.
He specifically started talking about American party politics, unprompted, making sweeping statements about both Democrats and Republicans. NOW he wants to blame us for…being concerned with his views on American party politics? Dude. Get real.
Saying stupid shit now and then is forgivable, but not if you take it in as the new nucleus of your public image. Why do so many public figures have this compulsion to double down combatively?
Business owners should not touch politics, thats just alienates 50% of the user base no matter his views
andy88, if he cares about proton, should have resigned yesterday
Isn’t 88 neo-Nazi code for “heil Hitler”? And isn’t putting it in binary to disguise it evidence that he knows full well what it means?
As much as I’m not terribly fond of the guy, IIRC he’s 36, which makes ‘88’ likely short for 1988, the year he was born.
8 is also a lucky number in Chinese culture. I’ve seen a lot of "88"s in Chinese social media just because of that.
It always sucks when shitbags co-opt innocent symbols and language.
Oh OK, that makes sense. Still, an unfortunate choice of username that could add to the confusion.
You are crazy.
Our license plates look like this: 2/3-letter city identifier - 1/2 letters you can choose - a 1-4 digit number you can choose. A friend of mine has the initials A.H. and was born in 1988. He wanted CITY - AH - 88. Registration did not allow it as it’s nazi dog whistling.
Dog whistling is very common to find like-minded fascists and nazis. Kind of a sad, pathetic life if you think about it.
It is very sad indeed. I went through the same experience when I wanted a license plate to commemorate Albert Heijn.
Hey that guy is thinking about stuff! They must got brainrot!
I’m just aware of how these people signal to each other. I don’t know anything about the Proton CEO’s politics, but numbers like 14 and 88 in usernames are common dogwhistles.
What does 14 mean?
It stands for “the 14 words”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
That’s correct, he was asked about it on Reddit too and confirmed it was just his birth year.
Since it’s a common dog whistle though I do think it’s always worth questioning. Particularly when it’s tied to someone licking Trump’s boots.
A lot of Nazis were supposedly born in 1988…
But in this specific case, i believe him.
Cool story bro.
Even if he is born in 1988, he could have picked a non-Nazi suffix for his username.
This is dumb lol
Hey,
Yeah, born in 88 and also a lucky number in some cultures
This was my first thought, as it’s a very common username addon. I was unaware of all the other stuff.
While yes adding your birth year to your username is common (but terrible OpSec), adding 88 or HH or other Nazi symbolism is also common among their community. Especially in an open setting.
It serves as a shibboleth for the alt-right that you are one of them.
Not even a little in this situation. Maybe take your head out of your ass and stop spreading lies. He literally addressed this head on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2nz9v/comment/m7nr5ym/
His reply in text form:
It’s the year I was born, and also a lucky number in Taiwan where I am from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/88_(number)#%3A~%3Atext=Number+88+symbolizes+fortune+and%2Csupermarkets+often+contain+many+8s.
And explain this!!
He’s from Asia where the number 8 have a good luck meaning, so is likely is not related to the 88 neo nazis uses.
I’d buy that if he didn’t start his statement with “I live in Switzerland.” 8 may be a lucky number for him, but he absolutely knows what 88 means.
He can be both from Asia and still live in Switzerland
On the flip side, do you think a Swiss person living in Asia would be ignorant that 8 is a lucky number?
I think all the Westerners in this thread that are shocked that Asia has culture they didn’t consult them on would imply yes to your question.
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t know about that good luck meaning.
same reasoning would justify the use of swastika for an indian living in Germany
good luck working that out
It absolutely justifies Indians using the swastika. They didn’t agree to the nazis stealing their culture, that had existed for thousands of years, to use as their logo. Don’t be racist.
looks like it’s even more complicated than i did assume ☞ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika_(Germanic_Iron_Age)
this has nothing to do with race, i was making an analogy. I’m neither in/from Germany, nor in/from India. I just happen to know this:
The German and Austrian postwar criminal code makes the public showing of the swastika, the sig rune, the Celtic cross (specifically the variations used by white power activists), the wolfsangel, the odal rune and the Totenkopf skull illegal, except for certain enumerated exemptions.
To be fair, it’s easier to be ignorant of neo-Nazi numerology than of their use of the swastika.
Sadly, “Asia” doesn’t mean “ignorance of Hitler.”
#Looking for link to Nazi store in …
Edit: first link I found. Not endorsement. https://qz.com/928440/asias-disturbing-embrace-of-nazi-chic-is-prompting-a-nonprofit-to-teach-holocaust-history
The number 8 is considered the luckiest number in China, and is associated with wealth. The year 1988 also happens to be his birth year.
He knows what he’s doing.
Being Asian? Way to put yourself as a racist.
What? You OK?
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Holy shit he’s still arguing with people about this today?
He’s well on his way to reaching Muskian levels of failure to shut the hell up.
I’d say he’s already a foot over the line.
He’s backally saying, “We Americans don’t get it. He did nothing wrong because both sides are the same.”
Rather than remorse, he’s doubled down.
the comments in that thread is such a reddit moment
I seem to remember that Switzerland has a history of profiting from their relationships with Nazi’s. Thus they might not be a good source of advice as to what to do about Nazi’s.
It’s dumb to call Trump a nazi and the populist wing of the Republican party nazis.
It’s not even clever at this point, maybe it was edgy and transgressive like 7 years ago.
The reason it’s dumb is that you are wasting all of your powerful language and you will have no more if things get worse. Boy who cried wolf. Just like people did to racist which used to carry great power and now is basically meaningless as a powerful descriptor.
Gee. Which side has all the people marching with nazi flags?
Which side never kicks them out when they do?
Now now. Many MAGA are in fact documented nazis, and Trump’s record is bad but it quite as explicit as that. If you’re afraid of the term being bandied about, I recommend therapy.
I recommend therapy.
Poe’s law detector fail
Far right is not mutually exclusive to Nazism
They don’t kick their nazi buddies out of their events.
I’m sorry but what? This is really weird logic as language and words aren’t required to follow some linear path of severity. People call the GOP, Trump and the like Nazis because… they fit the definition of Nazis, actual card carrying Nazis support them by a significant majority. (Yeah yeah I know there is the odd one here or there that doesn’t)
If it walks like a Nazi, talks like a Nazi and engages in Nazi tactics, behaviors etc. Then it can be called a Nazi. You don’t reserve your language so that you have some end point to progress to.
It’s also very weird to use the boy who cried wolf when the whole point of that story is that you don’t call something that which it isn’t for fear that when the real thing comes along no one will believe you as that would imply that they are in fact not Nazis. Which would only be true in the most technical of sense (As in they are not of the Nazi party of Germany) but by most dictionary definition the word fits.
Lastly, what the hell are you even talking about “edgy”? Do you think people are calling them Nazis to be edgy? Because that’s ridiculous and quite frankly your entire comment screams of someone trying to defend them through deflection.
What’s more important, winning the fight over what label to put on those assholes or actually fighting what they do? It’s the same as people arguing about whether the Gaza situation is technically a genocide or not. Endless debate on the technicalities while nothing changes. Calling Trump and by extension all his followers “Nazis” just reinforces their belief that the “left” is their unrelenting enemy.
Why in your view is it mutually exclusive? To address any problem one first has to identify that there is in fact a problem. Calling it out where it exists IS that identification. It isn’t about “labels” it’s about identifying what needs to be dealt with and make no mistake there are a lot of people who don’t want to acknowledge the problem and if anything what you’re doing is exactly the shit the fascists do by forcing the side wanting to fight fascism to moderate its language on the belief that if we use that language against the fascists the fascists will dig into their fascism… as if they aren’t doing that anyway.
In fact letting the right-wing control the narrative no matter what happens is in large part why we are where we are and why this shit needs to be called out, identified, labelled and opposed at every point with whatever means are necessary.
Do you think a large majority of Trump voters (not the vocal, terminally online ones) are actively hoping for an end to democracy? No, they’re just misled by someone who pretends to be on their side. And to turn the tide we need them back on our side. You think they’re going to be convinced by us shouting “fascist” at them? Obviously not. So what’s your plan to control the narrative?
Trump has a plan. Unlike the tone deaf democrats who even now don’t seem to be able to present a message that normal people are interested in. They’re seen mostly as defenders of the status quo. The status quo that forces folks to work 3 jobs to make rent, then Trump comes along and shouts “death to the status quo”. Just repeatedly shouting back “Trump is evil” isn’t going to cut it.
It’s not even clever at this point, maybe it was edgy and transgressive like 7 years ago.
Are you really this childish that you genuinely think the only reason people might suggest Trump is a fascist is because it was “edgy and transgressive”? Not the fascist rhetoric, increasingly fascist policy and the various fascists he’s willing to work with and support?
Nazism is a very small subset of fascism, they are not equivalent. Nazi also carries VERY heavy baggage which is inapplicable to Trump. Use the right terms.
Hey guys, look at this dipshit, drawing irrelevant distinctions and pointlessly trying to police other peoples language because they think the only reason others would use those terms is because they’re “edgy and transgressive”.
Tell me, where on the fascism to nazism meter is mass deportations, muslim bans, endorsing far right militias, supporting running over protestors, palling around with white supremacists, and seeking to eradicate trans people from public life? Are we at .49? or is it more like .76? My readings seems to be off. Just so I know I’m not using the incorrect terms so some moron from .world doesn’t get mad and try to incessantly police terms on the internet.
chill
“Chill, I was just drawing a meaningless distinction between my party and another part of my party with identical views!”
Nazism is a very small subset of fascism, they are not equivalent. Nazi also carries VERY heavy baggage which is inapplicable to Trump. Use the right terms.
Can’t tell if you’re defending trump or gatekeeping nazism.
Peak 2020s narcissism, pointing out historical facts is “gatekeeping”
Sorry I meant, everyone is entitled to their own history. I have some cool ones I could share?
Wasting your time explaining nuance and facts to literal retards, which are the majority of lemmings.
Lmao that onyx guys comment is at -18
And protons reply:
I believe this is a false equivalence. Supporting a nominee for antitrust, is not the same as endorsing everything else Trump may or may not believe in or flirting with Nazism as you put it. It goes too far to draw that conclusion about Proton or myself.
They just dont get it
What the echo chamber of reddit doesnt have critical thinking? Well I never…
Looks like Lemmy is just as bad. I wish the mods would get in here and temp ban some folks who dont understand lemmyquite
I’d recommend looking at the instance those folks are coming from. You may notice some similarity with those users.
Always nice to be linked back to Reddit and reminded that it is a terrible place.
As swiss person I have to meet and talk to this guy, he can not be that stupid!
We definitely have something like the republicans party, it is called SVP (Schweizerische Volkspartei). SVP uses exactly the same tactics as republicans, like anti “woke”, anti regulation, anti common media, pro hate-speech(“anti censorship”), etc.
We just not have a single party to counter it, like democrats, but like 10 parties with little nuances.
We have some small parties besides SVP “on the republican site” but those tend to be irrelevant. Maybe, the anti corona party has a some relevance, still, but I guess their power is sinking.
I personally support the pirate party, which mainly stands for privacy, no matter if left or right, but the party it self is leading to the left (democratic) side.
At least, that is how I understand our situation here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i2ff6q/call_for_andy_yen_to_resign/
UPDATE: Andy Reply
According to Andy’s logic, if Hitler were the president of some unfortunate country, we should differentiate the boss from his good nominees. Even using a company founded by an entire community to show a good evaluation made by one of its founders to give him a loving pat on the back and show the world that he is not completely bad as they think, but not meaning that the founder agrees with all his innocent actions, of course, such as disregarding the rights of many people around the world because they are just part of the democratic game.
Wow, the comments on that Reddit post. Ok.
“People forget I don’t live in China. Just because I praise Mao for wanting to shed the yoke of cultural tradition, doesn’t mean I necessary support everything he’s doing…” -Andy, if this was 1966
Careful saying that around these tankie parts.
Honestly I find his attitude to be quite commendable and I think that speaks much louder than whatever it is you disagree with.
Maybe he should have just left Trump’s name out of it entirely as that seems to be what really pushed people’s buttons.
People are going to twist things around no matter what is said though. Don’t forget hindsight makes everyone look guilty.
Maybe he should have just left Trump’s name out of it entirely as that seems to be what really pushed people’s buttons.
It probably didn’t help, but no, I don’t think that was it. I think it was his sweeping generalizations about dems/republicans as a whole, along with the insinuation that dems were bought, republicans are “looking out for the little guys”, and the election undermined the will of the people:
Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost. Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.
You are right about the generalization on parties, but the “little guy” he meant are small tech companies opposed to big tech. It was clear to me in the context, and to clear any doubt, he explicitly said that in a reddit comment.
I want to specify because this has been stretched on here as far as “he said republicans care for the working class”.
the “little guy” he meant are small tech companies
That changes nothing.
Added for completeness. Lots of people got pissed because they assumed he meant that in general republicans stand with the little guy, prompting comments such as “what about trans/immigrants/etc.”.
You did not do that, of course, but you can see how your comment could reinforce this opinion in people who didn’t read the actual tweet and discussion and were just looking for reasons to get angry.
He should have just stayed the fuck out of Americans politics being a provider of a secure service that many Americans of all political persuasions use.
He is an idiot who cost his company business. The only spin is trying to downplay it at this point. The consequences are lost profits.
Let’s be real. You mean he should have stayed out of it if he was going to voice an opinion that doesn’t match yours. People don’t want apolitical, they want an echo chamber.
No, he should stay out of either side because business is about making money. I don’t want to know what politics you support. I don’t care for politicizing everything. It is a fucking turn off.
You want my money, do your job, sell me your product, give me your service, but don’t talk to me about your hot takes on politics. Also religion as well. I and many many other people don’t want to hear it.
Your comment might hold a valid argument, if your previous comments hadn’t made it perfectly clear you take issue with the fact he praised something a politician you don’t like has done.
Whether you agree with my character or not what I said was accurate for any business person/enterprise. It is really not beneficial and increases risk unnecessarily.
Better that they tell us imo. If someone thinks that the people I care about don’t deserve to exist for reasons no one can control, I’d rather know and avoid giving them money than to help them quietly gain influence and power until they can eradicate these people themselves.
There is a certain logic to this. I tend to agree that I would like to know. I also think I would probably find out I would have to be self sufficient if I truly did not want to give to bad actors.
You say it doesn’t match that other users opinion, but doesn’t it not match the vast majority of proton users opinions? Authoritarians aren’t usually big on personal privacy. So praising one when you run a company based upon privacy is a dumb idea. It would be like running a vegan food company and praising people who like Slaughter cattle. It’s a stupid fucking mindset. Which says a lot of things to me about his capacity as a CEO frankly. If he’s this dumb why should people trust them to run a business they frequent?
It would be one thing if Trump was actually anti-trust…but he isn’t.
He’s anti companies which don’t prostrate themselves in front of him and bow to his whims. They’re bad, terrible, anti American companies. The ones that do are great, wonderful, beautiful companies. The bad ones need to be broken up and given to the big ones.
He’s so transparent it’s painful. If someone says good things about Trump or give him money, they’re good. If they don’t, they’re bad. It’s absurdly obvious.
If that motivation still leads to work against tech monopolies, good. Can’t wait for people to do the right thing for the right reason. If that won’t happen it will be criticized as a lack of action.
Ultimately the benefit for the population is having as much freedom and fair competition in the tech space as possible. If that comes from Trump hallucinations, from a dream or from something else, who cares…?
How can anyone possibly think that Trump is against tech monopolies when Bezos, Musk, and Zuckerberg are going to be sitting behind him shoulder to shoulder at the inauguration?
He expressed his motivations, which we are all free to disagree with and consider stupid. He considers especially the past history for the current antitrust nominee. Either way (and he said this too), we will be all evaluating actions, and at the moment we are speculating on what’s going to happen. Why so much heat for an opinion on such thing though?
If that motivation still leads to work against tech monopolies
It doesn’t, never did, never will.
I can’t believe we have to argue in 2025 about this.
The whole project 2025 is about breaking bad regulations, antitrust won’t survive. You just have to kiss the ring, and do whatever.
OK, but it’s a speculation as much as the other position. I also think it won’t happen, but it’s besides the point. Does it matter IF trump does it for a good or a bad reason? If it happens, can we be happy about it?
If it happens to only specific companies, but others will do anything without issues, it will be a huge problem.
And it will.
le false equivalence totally validates my endorsement for the worst president elected in US history
So, to get this straight, for you it’s impossible to recognize that a pick for a position is a good pick in the Trump government, by definition, without consideration of the actual pick?
To me this is religion, not politics or ideology (which I both consider very good things). To be even more clear, I consider Andy’s position completely rational and legitimate in this case. I believe it’s absolutely legitimate to be happy Trump picked someone good for a position and at the same time not support the rest 98%. At most, the interesting debate is why that pick is not good, which is 100% opinable and worthy of a discussion.
But saying that any statement, in any context, whatever narrow and specific equal full support is completely insane to me.
If all he said was literally “i approve of this pick for this position” you’d be correct.
What actually happened was he approved of the pick and also claimed the republicans are now actually the party that stands for the “little guy”.
Then followed up with a non apology that claimed what he said was not intended to be a “political statement”.
by all means, argue that you think there’s a fuss over nothing, but if you leave important context out seemingly because it doesn’t suit your narrative it weakens your argument substantially.
I know what happened, I followed quite thoroughly.
He thinks that republicans are now the ones with a higher chance to push antitrust cases against big tech (I.e., work for the little guy - EDIT: source). He thinks this based on the last few years and a few things that happened. He likes the nomination from Trump. How is this a full support to Trump? How believing that republicans will do better - in this area - equals being a Nazi?
Of course I believe that there is a fuss over nothing. The above statement has been inflated and I have already read “he applauded to Trump antitrans policies”, " posted Nazi symbols" and other complete fantasies.
Many people, who are on the internet on a perpetual witch hunt decided to interpret a clearly specific tweet (about antitrust and big tech) as a global political statement, and read that “little guy” as “common man” or - I have read it here on Lemmy - “working class”. Basically everyone tried to propose ideas about why that post was so awful, rather than first trying to understand what the hell he meant. I will agree the first tweet is ambiguous, but that’s because it’s a 200 characters tweet, he then explained his position quite clearly, and the summary above is what he actually meant.
This “context” added doesn’t move my post a centimeter IMO.
While it’s certainly true that some of the people who are angry at him for that tweet are saying things in their anger that are overboard, I think only pointing out the most ridiculous things that people who disagree with you have ever said in their anger is a really terrible way of engaging honestly on the subject.
It’s important to remember that an authoritarian that always figured out what the right thing to do was and did the opposite of that would be a really bad authoritarian. Republicans at the state level have been increasing state surveillance to hunt down and punish people for choices they make with their own bodies. For a lot of people in America, Trump is the head of the organization that they want privacy to protect themselves from, and the current largest threat to privacy in America.
For the CEO of a company that is supposedly about protecting our privacy to completely unprompted start publicly praising decisions made by the very threat we’re supposed to trust them to protect us from, and then to double down on their praise when called out, is deeply concerning.
Yes. It’s true that not every single thing Trump does will be the worst possible thing, but his goals are fundamentally opposed to ours. When I say I want big tech to be broken up it’s because I want their to be less concentration of power. When Trump wants to break up big tech it’s because he wants to eliminate the competition to his concentration of power. That is not worthy of my praise, even if in any one particular instance the thing he is doing is similar to what I would do, and the fact that the CEO of Proton either doesn’t understand this or doesn’t care is deeply concerning. I do not trust them after this, and I doubt they can ever get that trust back.
He praised one thing, and motivated that praise. It’s 100% possible to disagree, but I don’t find it concerning at all. I find it reasonable, because proton can better protect the privacy of users if more people can choose freely privacy oriented tools (like proton). Hence, if Trump does or says something that can help moving in that direction, it can be labeled as a good thing. Not every sentence is a collective or global assessment of all things considered.
When Trump wants to break up big tech it’s because he wants to eliminate the competition to his concentration of power.
- this is something US citizens should concern themselves
- it is only tangentially irrelevant
- if by breaking up monopolies people will be able to choose more privacy-preserving services, what you think is Trump’s goal will fail anyway. More privacy and less data is also a way to limit the amount of demographic targeting he uses so well in his campaigns.
So I am good with him doing the right thing for the wrong reason, and I wish him a swift failure afterwards.
doesn’t understand this or doesn’t care is deeply concerning
Have you considered that he might not agree with what is just your opinion? Obviously you are free to draw any conclusion you want and not use them.
See, now that’s a more thorough explanation of your position.
I disagree with pretty much all of your assertions (though the witch hunt stuff can be true sometimes) , but at least i know I’m disagreeing with an opinion formed using the whole of the information provided.
This “context” added doesn’t move my post a centimeter IMO.
It shows you read the initial information in it’s entirety and still came to the conclusion you did.
That removes the possibility of responses such as “Did you even read the initial tweet?”.
Well… it should remove that possibility, in practice it just means you can safely ignore those responses because clearly the people making those responses haven’t read your response in it’s entirety.
Context matters. Why did you ignore it? We see so many CEOs kissing Trump’s feet these days. Here Andy is, doing the same… Of course I don’t know what’s in Andy’s head, but Trump loves groveling, and clearly Andy is riding that bandwagon on purpose.
That’s not context, that’s a superficial observation. Zuck kissed the ring by changing Facebook policy to align with trump/musk posture on “free speech”, Andy said he likes the antitrust pick. They are completely different things.
Right, Andy’s action was bad but not as bad. We agree. It’s not identical.
And when given the chance to explain how he felt about this situation, on how the bad timing is … purely accidental or something … he did a bad job of it. Which suggests our original conclusions were in fact correct.
Also, if you think observations about time, place, and manner are superfluous, that’s a peculiar thought. Maybe we disagree. Maybe I think basic elements of societal interaction and communication are important and informative.
This tweet happened right after trump picked for the antitrust position. The “time” is completely logical, the “place” is a tweet and the manner is a short statement supporting that pick. Also proton is a US company, so it doesn’t have the same reason to “bend the knee” as other US big tech are doing.
So it’s not that I am ignoring context, I genuinely don’t see relation. He praised something that he pushes for years, he did not suddenly switch to “free speech” like Zuck.
Americans are not flirting with Nazism. They dated it, married it and had many children with it.
Oh FFS. Please stop abusing the word “Nazi” for every tiny transgression against 2025-era US progressive biases. Why do Americans do this - do you not learn anything at school? Words have meanings. Whatever the reason, to compare someone who isn’t “fighting for a more just and equal society” to a “Nazi” just makes you look like a know-nothing ignoramus. It discredits whatever you have to say.
Response to the predictable justifications. Are you all aware that Putin calls democratic Ukraine “Nazi” for exactly the reasons you’re all calling Trump one - namely, that it’s a big powerful word? Yes, I’m aware of Trump’s provocations and impulses. In other times Trump would probably have been more Mussolini than Berlusconi (i.e. a fascist). But “Nazi” is on a whole other level: it implies an apocalyptic, totalitarian, genocidal subversion of what most people consider civilization. This was actually a thing and it bears almost no connection to Trump’s brand of chaotic reactionary populism. If you know anything about history then you should know this already. To insinuate that Trumpism is Nazism is insulting to intelligence.
Are you trying to be wrong on every thread about this you post in? To follow up on @EldritchFeminity point about the LGBT community, one of the other groups first targeted by the Nazi’s were the disabled. Trump is on record as stating (as per his nephew) that disabled people should ‘just die’ and has openly mocked disabled people. His views are so close to 1930s/40s era Nazism as to make no real difference.
Are you trying to be wrong on every thread about this you post in?
So you’re keeping tabs on me, I see. Maybe you’re drawing up a list of my transgressions?
Do be an adult. Lemmy isn’t that big that you don’t recognise usernames.
Yes and I recognize yours. But the fact that I thought you were “wrong” yesterday too is completely uninteresting to everyone else here.
That’s why I replied directly to you. Are you new to how public, threaded conversations work?
He is flirting with the alt-right. And some movements „dabble“ in nazi memorabilia to mention the most flagrant connections to it or his failure to even outright criticize Hitler.
I know that the word Nazi is really triggering but its also true in this case. He is not said to be a Nazi himself but flirting with them. Which is factual and not really discrediting per se.
If the only argument here is: Nazis can only be German and its a historical term that cannot ever be applied to other nations I think that belies how everyone consistently uses language in a not strict academic sense and even then there are academic papers linking him to Nazism and right ideology in general.
And your other insinuation of saying that „anyone who isnt working for a more just and equal society“ would be applicable to Trump, his campaign and the things he platforms falls flat if you look at what his recurring talking points are. Sure let’s use the word Nazi less bit of course in association with Trump it gets used for very clear, explicit parallels. But I don’t think you really care about that if you try to frame everything as tiny transgressions by people who are just not „fighting for a more just and equal society“. If Nazi is too strong a word, what would you propose? And is the use of it logically a valid reason to discredit an opinion? On an open source platform talking about people who have English as a second or third language?
If Nazi is too strong a word, what would you propose?
Something that describes the phenomenon you’re talking about. “Nationalist”, “national populist”, “rightwing populist”, “hard-right reactionary”, etc etc. There are lots. No, they don’t get your blood pumping like “Nazi”, but the benefit is that they save you from looking like an ignorant extremist and might also help you be more persuasive.
[…] to compare someone who isn’t “fighting for a more just and equal society” to a “Nazi” just makes you look like a know-nothing ignoramus.
(emphasis mine)
What an interesting way to describe the technocratic class that is aligning themselves with Trump. Are you up for a promotion at a FAANG, maybe? For recently rolling back some DEI policies perhaps?
To quote the incoming administration, “We need a genocide of trans people.”
The LGBT community was one of the first groups in the camps. Alongside the immigrants and socialists. You know the famous picture of the Nazis burning books? Those books were records from the German Center for Sexual Wellness, a repository of knowledge about sex and sexuality, and the first known medical facility to treat transgender people using hormone therapy in the 1910s.
Maybe you should learn history before saying something like a know-nothing ignoramus and discrediting whatever you have to say. But go off about “progressive biases.” To also quote a Republican complaint, “Reality has a left-leaning bias.” Is that what you think, too?
Maybe you should learn history
I have a degree in it.
And yet you fail to see the parallels between Trump’s rhetoric (one of Hitler’s first campaign promises was to build a wall around Germany to keep the job stealing immigrants out), his and his party’s stated goals, even his failed coup attempt (the Beer Hall Putsch sound familiar?), and the rise of Hitler’s Nazi party. Even the phrase “Make America Great Again” was used by a pro-Nazi American political group during the onset of WW2, who only disbanded after Pearl Harbor because it united the aggression of all sides of the political spectrum in the US.
Your argument basically boils down to “They’re not oligarchs unless they come from the oligarchy region of Russia. Otherwise, they’re “sparkling billionaires.””
You majored in this in college, while I’ve learned much of the finer details of the Nazi party because of Republican policies in the past decade. If it steps like a goose, Sig Heils like a goose, and quacks about the purity of Aryan blood, I’m sure as hell not calling it a duck because it’s an American goose and not a German one of 1910s breeding stock.
And even in that metaphor, you could argue a direct lineage between the MAGA party and the Nazi party because the incoming president is the son of a real estate tycoon who was a German immigrant whose previous business was refining jet fuel for the Third Reich’s Me-262 Schwalbes produced by Messerschmitt.
Yes, I see the parallels. It’s a question of degree and context. Your average MAGA hat wearer is comparable to a Nazi in the same way that your average American “democratic socialist” who cheers on the murder of a CEO is comparable to a Stalinist. Both of them are reckless fools before they’re actual Nazis and communists. If either of them got their way, bad things would happen which would surprise them as much as anyone else. I think we would do well to turn down the temperature a bit and try to understand each other rather than throw around these big insulting words that clearly we don’t really understand.
Your analogy is actually very apt because at the height of their power, the Nazi party made up a whopping 15% of the German population, IIRC.
It doesn’t take a lot of crazies to end with a death count for a minority group so high that they only passed their pre-WW2 population levels about 15 years ago. It merely takes the indifference or implicit support of the majority. So many Americans are either one issue voters or indifferent because their rights aren’t up for debate every 4 years that the political compass has swung so extreme that in the first 6 months of (I think) 2022, there were more anti-trans bills proposed than there were days in the year at that point. I did the math, and it came out to roughly 1.2 anti-trans bills per day. The Nazis didn’t start with the gas chambers. They started with prisons and internment camps for political prisoners, LGBT people, immigrants, and anyone else they deemed “undesirable,” inspired by America’s treatment of the indigenous peoples.
If we’re willing to call the people of Germany in WW2 Nazis or Nazi sympathizers, then we can call the “I’m a Republican, I vote for the nominee” crowd that I’ve known my entire life and the indifferent silent majority Nazi sympathizers as well, and the MAGA crowd that call for banning trans people from public spaces and to deport immigrants Nazis. They hold the same values about fascism and white supremacy, and many even wear the same outfits and fly the same flags as Nazi Germany. They’ve been marching in the streets since Trump’s first campaign. And we haven’t even talked about the white supremacist terrorist groups and militias. The FBI spends more than 50% of their time putting down white supremacist groups.
We have been marching down the exact same path as 1910s Germany for years, and we need to call it out. Even Hitler referred to the US as the sisterland across the ocean who shared his values in Mein Kampf. In any other country, the KKK would be considered a terrorist group. Here, they’re a political activist group who almost got one of their leaders elected to a fairly major government position.
The Democrats have spent 50 years “reaching across the aisle.” How’d that go for them in this past election? The country seems to have slipped ever further towards a Fourth Reich to me. When Republicans came out in support of Harris in swing states, she lost a large percentage of independent voters in those states - like 5% of the total voters in each state. There’s no understanding to be had with white supremacists and fascists. All they want is for people like me to die.
wow equating Nazis with communists - now there’s a false equivalence
I think we would do well to turn down the temperature a bit and try to understand each other rather than throw around these big insulting words that clearly we don’t really understand.
what a great way to turn down the temperature! being condescending… good work bud
perhaps take a look at the comment votes once in a while and do some self-reflection on your communication style, if not the correctness of your statements and either say: sorry, i’m clearly miscommunicating, or sorry you’re right
perhaps take a look at the comment votes once in a while and do some self-reflection on your communication style, if not the correctness of your statements and either say: sorry, i’m clearly miscommunicating, or sorry you’re right
So, it turns out there are people here who believe that comment votes somehow track truth, or at least something other than the prejudices and confirmation bias of those doing the voting.
The naivety is sad enough (internet forums have existed for 30 years - have we learned nothing?). But it’s worse than that, because it suggests that you would put aside your reasoned views, your values even, in order to fit in with whatever the mob around you thinks. No democracy can work if everyone does this. Let’s hope you’re an exception.
Apologies for the condescension but there was no alternative here.
So calling minorities “vermin” and making up shit about immigrants eating the pets of US citizens is a “tiny transgression”? No, that is text book nazi propaganda fueled by hate and endorsed by idiots.
Trump literally brags about studying Hitlers speeches. His father was a well known Nazi sympathizer.
Trump often uses Nazi rhetoric and sologans. The examples of these are extremely numerous and no other broadly supported American politician has been caught as often, all but assuring dog-whistling.
Neo-Nazis openly back Trump and are in his inner circle. They’ve been caught with swastika flags and tattoos, SS tattoos, 88 tattoos, often ending merchandise on Trump’s own websites with $X.88, lifting their arms in a Sig Heil at rallies, etc etc etc etc.
Trump has been asked to condemn his Neo-Nazi supporters and their racial violence, and he refuses.
If it quacks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and literally claims to be a Nazi- we should call it a Nazi.
Adding to that -
And his refusal in the leadup to the 2020 election to denounce the Proud Boys.
“Stand Back and Stand By” isn’t the kind of thing you say to a group you want nothing at all to do with.
And people salute to it like a Nazi…
Sure, the recesses of Trump’s mind seem to be a pretty dark place. But the guy was already president and we all know that whatever happens next, it’s not going to look anything like Germany circa 1938. You know it, I know, we all all know it. America has strong institutions, Trump is fat and lazy, and most of his followers are not even “national conservatives” let alone fascists or (ridiculously) Nazis. They’re people who voted against inflation and immigration. In the meantime, by hystericizing the language like this, you’re simultaneously making fools of yourselves and alienating people who you might otherwise persuade.
Last time he had opposition inside his party. Powerful people who didn’t want to rock the boat, the 'old guard’s. He had a split supreme court. He had a pandemic that slowed and in many ways prevented his plans.
Well, unfortunately, those old guard conservatives have largely been purged. The supreme court has been packed. And while pandemics are not entirely common, people have been lulled into a false sense of security and are unlikely to respond the same.
I don’t expect us to lose our vote. But I do expect voter suppression to escalate dramatically.
I don’t expect ethic cleansing, but I expect a lot of racial violence and escalating racial tensions.
I don’t expect world war, but I do expect a massive erosion of global diplomacy and many minor conflicts.
Most of the people who voted for him are largely brainwashed and uninformed or misinformed. Often times they’re scared or mistrusting rather than hateful.
I don’t call them Nazi’s, and I sincerely hope we can bring many of them back into reality.
But anyone who has paid attention to his rhetoric, his plans, his platform and still voted for it. Well there’s a word for people who supported the Nazi party in Germany but didn’t support the war or the ethnic cleansing. Nazis. They were called Nazis.
So you won’t call half of your fellow citizens Nazis, but they are, in fact, Nazis? Come on. And no, even Trump is not a Nazi, sorry. A quasi-proto-neo-fascist maybe, but not a Nazi. Deporting people who entered the country illegally is not “ethnic cleansing”, let’s be serious. Apart from tariffs and border security, Trump has no discernable beliefs, he just wants to people to suck up to him. Again: it’s ugly, but it’s not “Nazi”. You’re not being serious with language and I can tell from what you write that you know this already.
You continue to post responses to my evidence, but seem to refuse to engage with that evidence in any meaningful way.
Further, your posts are becoming more and more pedantic, insulting, and condescending.
I can tell you’re not invested in a respectful discussion, but rather in a platform for your ranting.
I’ll leave you to it and won’t respond further.
I can tell you’re not invested in a respectful discussion
Is downvoting someone for their opinion “respectful”. Personally, I don’t do that.
Ok, let’s agree on “Nazi Sympathiser”
This needs to be pinned at the top: only a Nazi goes out of their way to put an 88 in their username. He thinks he’s clever by putting it in binary so people don’t immediately call him out. Nazis get off on that kind of “clever” dogwhistle.
only a Nazi goes out of their way to put an 88 in their username
Yeah, I’m gonna need a citation for that. I was born in 1988.
For limited people, maybe.
88 is:
-
important for people born in 1988
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amateur radio romantic message (apparently older than Nazis, don’t ask me how I know, but it has to do with being used in that, and not HH, meaning in one Nazi song ; felt strange for me, until I’ve just read that it was a telegraph thing before radio)
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two eternity symbols turned (not those wheely ones)
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as people have mentioned, common as a lucky number in certain parts of the globe
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people can also be born on 8 August
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had that number on some item memorable for him (I had 72 in plenty of my nicknames, I can promise you it’s not about 72 virgins or 72 names of god and I’m not Muslim, I just had a yellow t-shirt with that number when I was a kid).
The funny part is that points #2 and #4 are probably known to him, tech company and all.
Why are you so knowledgeable of plausible deniabilities for a Nazi symbology?
-
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But that’s how dogwhistles work: they can hide behind a veil of plausible deniability.
If it’s really plausible, then you’ve got no way to tell it’s a dogwhistle.
Your comment is equivalent to “I can’t prove that Jews rule the world, but that’s because they’ve worked for plausible deniability, I know they do”.
But he is swiss, and here we know that 88 is for prising Hitler
He is from Taiwan, studies in US and then moved to Switzerland.
When was he born? Not everyone knows all the “secret” signs for stuff. How 18 is A.H or how 81 is H.A (Hells Angels) 1% biker clubs have surprisingly much of such codes. 8 is also the number of Khorne in the Warhammer fantasy/sci-fi setting. And before we start with that there are surprisingly few Nazis who play, but the few are very vocal.
Years ago I saw a guy in a crocery store in Norway wearing a “Combat18 Böhmen” hoodie. Buying ingredients for tex-mex taco incidentally. And when I pointed him out to my wife, she said that you are probably the only one in here to know this, and spot him for what he is.
So if Andy was born in 1988 I hope it’s why he has 88 in his username.
Here’s all I could find about his age in a few minutes:
He was actually born in 1988, according to the author’s article. If anyone can find a more reliable resource, please, post it here🙏
Yeah, birth years are super common in usernames (and password, don’t use it there). Bob Smith finds his preferred username is taken so becomes BobSmith79 or BobSmith88 or whatever because it’s easy an easy enough variation to remember.
You can find patterns/relations in almost anything if you reach for something, kinda like the “six degrees of separation” thing even if there’s a more reasonable answer
He’s apparently said he was born in 1988. In another thread others mentioned that would make him 21 when he started his PhD, which checks out.
So he can dogwhistle with impunity. Lucky guy.
When was he born? Not everyone knows all the “secret” signs for stuff.
I don’t care when he was born. Who puts their birth year in their username? “Here, internet. Here’s one less piece of information you need to steal my identity!”
No. “ItS mY bIrF YeEr” is just what nazi shit says when they get called out on being nazi shit.
He’s my generation. That’s what we did in the dawn of the internet when web email was new and shit. Everybody has “coolname87” “dogshit89”, “hipguy88” as their username. It’s not such a wild idea.
He’s younger than me, but there was a broad age range that all caught the internet around the same time. I’m aware that this is how it was once done. Usernames are longer now, allowing for greater creativity.
And this goober still uses his first name and an obfuscated 2 digit number? Yeah, he didn’t choose it because it’s his birth year.
We all choose to believe what we choose to believe. 👍
Yup. I believe this is untrustworthy behavior and I regret signing up for proton mail.
All within your right.
Look, I can’t comment on the significance of binary 88 in this instance with any confidence, but a lot of people use their birth year in their username.
Is it stupid? Absolutely, alongside demonstrating a total lack of any creativity whatsoever. But it’s 100% a thing.
Edit: Lol, will also note the first ‘people also search’ suggestion coming up when Googling Andy Yen is “When was Andy Yen born”, and in the 5 seconds of drunken searching I still haven’t seen a birth date.
Look, I can’t comment on the significance of binary 88 in this instance with any confidence, but a lot of people use their birth year in their username.
A lot of people who like trump were coincidentally totally born in 1988.
To be clear, I’m not arguing that people don’t put 88 as a clear dog whistle to white supremacists/general Nazi bullshit. This is more to the comment “who puts their birth year in their username?” bit specifically. The answer is a lot of people.
I also am not excusing Yen for his pro-Trump comments - that was fucking bullshit and I’m deeply disappointed - I’m just saying the YOB thing is a thing, but also coincidentally I also can’t seem to find a source to prove if he’s also doing the YOB thing or something else.
Note to self: Limit Lemmy to 3 beers max, particularly where Trumpian bullshit is involved. And thank god for autocorrect. Apologies, I really should not be interneting right now.
To be clear, I’m not arguing that people don’t put 88 as a clear dog whistle to white supremacists/general Nazi bullshit.
To be clear, anyone who supports trump is already nazi-adjacent enough to get no benefit of the doubt, and I don’t buy the “It’s my birth year” shit from any of them. Even if they were born in 1988, that’s not the reason 88 is in their username.
I also don’t believe that someone whose entire personality centers around cannabis has “420” in their username because they were born on April 20th. I don’t believe that some fratboy who is constantly making horny comments has “69” in his username because he was born on June 9th, either.
88 is so much worse that I wouldn’t even compare then to the anodyne 420 & 69 examples.
If I were born in 1988 I would not put an encoded “88” in my username. I wouldn’t want people to think I was dogwhistling.
Tbf I’ve put my birth year in my username before when I was a kid who knew next to nothing about privacy. I’ve seen other people do this too. So it’s not totally implausible. But yeah it is a bad look for Andy regardless.
Tbf I’ve put my birth year in my username before when I was a kid who knew next to nothing about privacy. I’ve seen other people do this too. So it’s not totally implausible.
It’s one thing when you’re a naive kid or a clueless boomer. It’s quite another when you’re the ceo of a privacy-focused company.
Who puts their birth year in their username?
You are not very old, right?
Maybe now, in our stupid time, folks use phone numbers for identity, some stupid handle (or just their actual name) and then post a lot of text, photos and such, totally less harmful for their privacy than their birth year. And no birth year
But in the olden days it was the main solution to “such user already exists” problem, combined with things like ‘xXx’ and ‘+0+’ on both sides or something.
You are not very old, right?
You’re not getting my birth year this way, either.
But in the olden days it was the main solution to “such user already exists” problem,
The account in question is two days old. And it’s from the CEO of a VPN service. This isn’t him signing up for baby’s first AOL account back in 1994.
Yes, a public figure, whose data can be discovered in few minutes, considers his birth year a secret. Also nobody ever used the birth year in their username on the internet.
Also ANDY = 1 + 14 + 4 + 25 = 44, which is half of 88 and contains 14, another nazy symbol. He is trying to pass it off as his name, but who uses their name on the internet? I will check the cabala now, because I am sure there is more.
God, I hope Nick Fury is already grouping the avengers, because Hydra is really making a move here.
If you don’t want people to think you’re a nazi, don’t say good things about trump with 88 sitting right there for everyone to see in your username.
The account is 2 days old. He knew what he was doing.
If trump did a good thing in a very narrow context you can’t say it, otherwise you are a Nazi? OK, this is madness. Also, it’s not “sitting there for everyone to see” because it’s binary. You also realize that people have different cultural references right? Maybe it’s not your responsibility to compute the cabala horoscope for everything you do, and assume that people will be able to use at least the 2% of the brain and for example distinguish from a bold Nazi supporter with 88 tattooed and a guy born in 88 who appends 88 to his username (in a nerd way). But apparently not.
He created an account to speak personally and not from the proton account he uses before. Anyway, “he knew what he was doing” is conspiracy theory again.
Also, it’s not “sitting there for everyone to see” because it’s binary.
Yes, obfuscating it makes it better!
Maybe it’s not your responsibility to compute the cabala horoscope for everything you do, and assume that people will be able to use at least the 2% of the brain and for example distinguish from a bold Nazi supporter with 88 tattooed and a guy born in 88 who appends 88 to his username (in a nerd way). But apparently not.
He supported trump with 88 in his username.
He created an account to speak personally and not from the proton account he uses before.
And he didn’t need to put 88 in there, or obfuscate it. And I’m increasingly certain that you’re freaking out and defending him for it because you’re happy that your political party is represented.
He supported Trump’s pick. I know reality makes little difference for you, but still. Also yes, he put 88 in his username, which is not a crime, especially for a Taiwanese guy born in 88 lmao.
The sole fact we are even discussing this is just absurd. Absurd. It’s 5g gives cancer absurd. It’s vaccine give autism absurd.
And I’m increasingly certain that you’re freaking out and defending him for it because you’re happy that your political party is represented.
Correct, because as non US citizen communist republicans are my party. In fact, anybody who disagrees with you is secretly a republican, and even more secret a Nazi, there is no other reason to disagree with you, absolutely. In fact, sudneo has “south” in it, and “o” at the end, what do you get it you put “o” south of “o”? 8, and that’s half of 88. Considering there is also “n” in it, and that’s 14, I think it’s quite clear that I am also a Nazi, trying to cover my Nazi colleague Andy. Heil Hydra.
You are just a maga with slightly different moral values. Still a cultist fanatic on a witch hunt that threw reason and reality out of the window.
This is at the same time:
- a novax level conspiracy
- a completely idotic assumption that not only doesn’t stand Occam’s razor, but not even basic common sense.
- racist and showing a colonial mindset, clearly prioritising what is relevant in YOUR culture (superior, more important), compared to what is relevant in that person’s culture.
Please can someone tell me how this attitude is fundamentally different from people who are in other cults (maga, novax, etc.)?
Holy shit. That is indeed 88 in binary…
He was born in 1988…
That doesn’t mean he needed to put it in his username.
looks at own username
It’s a bit more plausible when it’s all 4 digits.
Fair, but I have other variants with just “88”.
Maybe you shouldn’t be doing that. Maybe your birthday is not so special that you should use it when it’s a well and widely known symbol of Nazism. Frankly it’s a little hard for me to buy these days.
How did we all miss that 😮
Just a reminder that democrats funded a genocide and police brutality. Democrats are no better than Republicans.
The motherfucker lives in Switzerland and he supports Putin’s Sock Puppet. Fuck Andy. The USA will regress further away from the Swiss standard of living, which is what the USA should be striving for.
Wait, the proton ceo is a trump supporter? What the fuck, he’s the last person I thought would do that
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No he had plenty of time to educate himself but instead doubled and tripled down. Also his username ends in 88 which has been the most unsubtle Nazi dog whistle since the invention of usernames and the internet.
If you look a bit around in this thread, someone linked an article that mentions he was born in 1988.
How convenient.
He didn’t have to put it in his username.
Neither do the other thousands or millions of people who do so, but it’s not a particularly uncommon thing and it’s likely enough that (birthdate) is the reason it’s there. I’ve got my birth year (not '88) in my username for some sites because the bare username was already taken
Where’s the 88?
1011000 is binary for 88
Ohhhh. Drag thought it was the ASCII code for X
Isn’t 88 considered extremely lucky in Chinese culture?
You honestly think that’s what he was going for? Someone who grew up in a culture pretty heavily insulated from that but steeped in “former” Nazi ties?
Not only is 88 considered auspicious in his native culture, he was also born in 1988. Normally, yes, be wary of the 88 dog whistle, but without further evidence it looks like a nothing-burger in this case.
I think he’s more likely fascist than a Nazi, given the differentiator being the racial purity part. He lives and works in Switzerland, but was born in Taiwan and educated in the US.
Considering how he runs a business whose goal is to capture the privacy crowd and how a large portion of the privacy crowd is made up of those “Libertarian” tech-bro types, it might be more than just “no clue about American politics”, especially since he’s also doing stuff like promoting Bitcoin through Proton Wallet which is also popular among “Libertarian” tech-bro types, and the article used for marketing that both-sidesed the problems the “left” vs “right” experience and equated the Democrats with the “left”, which is popular among “Libertarian” tech-bro types as well. The 88 in his Reddit username is also suspect regardless of him claiming that it’s there because it’s his birth year. People who know how to operate a business usually aren’t doing it out of stupidity, so I’m not going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this, especially since the entire platform depends on trusting that they aren’t doing anything shady.
How do you explain the 88 in his username? That’s not an American thing.
My guess is that it’s a neo-Nazi thing, so his promoting right-wing American politics (his largest userbase) is probably intentional and not just him being stupid
He’s a money supporter.
I mean he is here publicly supporting Trump so…
I need to switch away from Proton immediately. Too bad they wouldn’t refund me.
