Okay, this is not an iPhone vs Android Phone debate. I respect your right to choose whichever platform that you want.
I mean, iPhone seems so antithetical with the idea of freedom. You have to connect it to a server to even use it, all apps have to go through a centralized server, no option to install whatever apps you want, which means, you literally cannot have any third-party apps without an online account.
Most of my fellow americans seems to love the idea of freedom so much, yet just buy into a closed ecosystem with no freedom? 🤔
Like almost 60% of Americans use iPhone, kinda weird to preach freedom when you cant even have an app without a corporation’s approval. If it were any other country, I wouldn’t find it weird, but for a country that’s obsessed with the idea of freedom (so much so that they disobeyed mask mandates), it’s really weird to be using a device with zero freedom.
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Not an iphone user, but am intrigued by all the ads the apple people say are on androids. Literally have never seen one, and I’ve had adjusted androids since the og htcs.
Android has a lot more free apps with ads, while on iOS there’s a lot more “gimme $2” apps. It’s a trade off.
Apple requires like $99 per year to keep the app in the store. Google play requires like $25 one time fee.
Supposedly that’s a significant impediment to malware - requiring an active credit card and non-trivial fee.
Any commercial product of any size is not going to miss $100. So it comes down to: is it good to reduce malware or is it bad to block freeware?
It’s the opposite. On Android I have an adblocker. On my work iphone I have to raw dog the internet
You can install AdGuard on iOS, it will at least block ads in the browser.
And then “just say no” to apps for websites
Rawdogging the internet applies to those who do not set up their phones properly. This applies to both IPhone and Android users. It is uncool that Apple only allows Webkit based browsers, where uBlock Origin doesn’t work. But even Safari Browser can be set up properly in the settings. Additional to that, there are extensions that block ads and trackers. I use a combinatiion of three extensions and I haven’t seen any ads so far:
KaBlock!
Hush Nag Blocker
Ad Guard (I only use the free tier)For iPhone, The internet is much better:
- in reader mode
- with AdGuard
I didn’t realize there was AdGuard available. Is it an extension or like a standalone app running in the background?
Sorry, I don’t have any details. I enabled it long ago and really don’t think about it except when it breaks a web site. Then it’s well integrated to temporarily turn it off
Saw them all the time on my first android phone which was a $20 Huawei phone which is almost certainly a major factor.
The answer is marketing by Apple and mobile carriers, which lean on peer pressure via iMessage. Plus the iPhone built on the success of the iPod, which led the market for mp3 players.
I want my phone to be like a gaming console.
I turn it on, it works. I install curated stuff from a store.
The hardware is stable and predictable and thus software is of better quality when the developer doesn’t need to test 420 different hardware variants.
I do not want it to be a Linux PC I need to tinker with every day. I specifically want it to prevent me from fucking with it.
EDIT: I also have “adult money” so I can get any phone I want, I don’t need to get the cheapest.
I can only speak for myself and my kids. I have an iPhone because my work gave me one for free. They only support iPhone for security reasons. Keeping Android devices up to date across a large fleet is challenging leaving security gaps. For my kids they wanted my old iPhones because it’s what all their friends have.
Americans have been propagandized by Apple advertising into thinking Apple products are “high class.”
Ask yourself: Why does anyone wear a Rolex?
It boils down to the same thing, showing people your wealth and thus “social value” (barf) via conspicuous consumption.
If it wasn’t conspicuous consumption, why would US people literally judge potential dating partners on what kind of phone they use?
Its function is exactly what the name implies: to alert people that you have money in the bank. I Am Rich was available for purchase from the phone’s App Store for, get this, $999.99 – the highest amount a developer can charge through the digital retailer, said Armin Heinrich, the program’s developer. Once downloaded, it doesn’t do much – a red icon sits on the iPhone home screen like any other application, with the subtext ‘I Am Rich.’ Once activated, it treats the user to a large, glowing gem (pictured above). That’s about it. For a thousand dollars.
This was barely a year after the original iPhone’s release. The attitude toward Apple products has persisted ever since.
It about not beeimg sold as the product. Its about using the browser that dont rat you out
That means Apple’s advertising is working if you actually believe they care about your privacy.
But iphones can’t use Firefox with uBlockOrigin and NoScript
Conspicuous consumption doesn’t really hold in this case because the alternative is around the same price.
I’d also question any claim about the dating partner. Maybe a study said it has an impact, but I doubt it’s a strong impact on evaluation of a potential partner. By all means, I’d love to see the source for that
You also cite an example of what was basically a meme. Literally nobody bought that app (and iirc those who were tricked got their money back)
The different colored texts in iMessage and forced downgrade of any MMS sent via an Android is part of that perception by iPhone users that Android’s are inferior devices, even if they cost similarly.
Apple refused to implement RCS until very recently. Not saying Google is better in terms of RCS, they have their own issues, this is just about how Apple has leveraged iMessage to the end of people viewing it as a "higher class’ device than Android.
All the sleek white design was a part of that too. People thought it looked futuristic/costly and the rest of the industry tried to copy their design philosophy due to that. You can’t deny that Apple devices look classy. Apple didn’t pay Jony Ive an absolute fuckton of money per year for nothing.
the alternative is around the same price
You know that’s not true.
There are stupidly expensive Android flagships, but there are also a lot of phones for a fraction of the price.
And the phones that cost a fraction of the price are significantly slower, have a much worse screen, barely get any software updates, and overall just kinda suck.
Sure low and mid range phones are “good enough” but if it’s a device you use for hours every day do you really only want “good enough” for right now?
But those inexpensive phones most often don’t deliver a comparable device experience to the flagship devices. Honestly, this is the crux of things. Comparing iPhone to “Android” is a fool’s errand. Apple often only has one more budget conscious model available explicitly. But OS support tends to last longer on Apple devices, so multiple model years are viable at once.
Usually people speak of this as an advantage but I also think it is a disadvantage, one of the reasons for wider usage of iPhones ……
- there are crappy android phones
- historically android was crappy (even if it is much better now)
- most android phones are loaded with bloatware.
- most android phones are poorly supported or for only a short period
- privacy and security can be a challenge for regular users
- inconsistent usability
Meanwhile, iPhones
- are always “good”, even the lower end
- historically held leads in usability, features, even if not true anymore
- no bloatware from vendors
- full support for 6 years
- claim privacy and security by default
- good usability
I hate to say it, the reason people choose dating partners on phone use is because of blue texts on iMessage. that’s the only reason. Apple was brilliant pitching that as an Android problem instead of playing fair and working on an open standard since day 1. Dragged their feet for years.
I still find this hard to believe. It’s just a visual indicator whether the conversation is encrypted or not, but who would actually judge partners with this.
When I checked with my kids, since we know teenagers can be very shallow bullies, they said there is some light teasing but it was really started by online crap like this. Not even teenagers care. I mean, they don’t usually use iMessages anyway, so many probably never noticed.
“Blue texts” is a fake issue. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was started as a prank, or by Google, and no one cared until it was all over the internet
It’s not just a visual indication of if it’s encrypted. SMS sucks, truly, compared to apps like iMessage, WhatsApp, etc. so it’s actually annoying to message people with green text. Now that Apple does RCS it’s not a big deal, but in the USA there’s no default internet messaging app like WhatsApp, and to the extent that there is one it’s iMessage.
SMS is default texting for all phones of all types all providers in the US. Its main advantage is ubiquity and it is the only ubiquitous text protocol. SMS was always owned by cell providers.
While I also am disappointed that ubiquitous text protocol owned by cell providers never progressed, can’t blame Apple for that. They could have used their influence to push harder but bottom line is the change needed to be at cell providers. They may also have seen that even Google with all its influence wasn’t able to make it happen (without taking it proprietary, owning it, centralizing it).
But let me ask this: what other texting provider includes a fallback to incorporate texters outside their network? At all? Does WhatsApp include users of iMessage? SMS? RCS?
You can literally blame Apple for that, because that standard did progress, and they did not incorporate it into their default messaging app for years due to anticompetitive marketing practices. To compare the responsibilities of a default and only (since you can’t sidecar on iPhone) text messaging app on a phone with 50% market share with a third party app is bad faith. Even then, WhatsApp and others were cross platform, not hardware dependent.
Did you just reverse your position? I’m confused. Do you think the blue bubbles are more than encryption or not? Do you think people care about them or not? Do you think Apple is a bad faith participant in that issue or not?
Different bubbles are a visual indicator whether the messages are encrypted.
Apple is a good faith participant in that they support a fallback to the texting standard supported by every mobile vendor.
It’s not bad faith on my part when you brought up WhatsApp. Sure they don’t have blue but bubbles, but that’s because they don’t support an open standard at all, they don’t have an inclusive mode at all, they only support their own users on their own proprietary protocol.
Most importantly I don’t see how it’s Apple’s responsibility to push mobile vendors to modernize. Blame them if vendors were modernizing and they pushed back, however, no, there was no progress. It’s irrelevant if the standard is evolving but no one supports it and this whole thing on,y works if mobile vendors support it
Different bubbles indicate more than encryption
WhatsApp is not a default app or an attempt at implementing a standard, a default text messaging app is.
The vendors were modernizing and they pushed back.
I’m glad you could set up a way to falsify your beliefs so that they could, indeed, be proven false
- iphones are the first recognized “smartphone”.
- apple is an american company.
- apple has a massive fanbase that is completely dedicated to apple and all their products.
i’m not sure what the global usage of apple products is, but i think here it’s probably a lot higher than in other places. throw in the fact that there’s only one device capable of (legally) running apple’s mobile software, and there you have it.
also, their advertising didn’t hurt either. no one on the android side had the kind of advertising they did until maybe 6 or 7 years later and by that time you were probably already well established in the iphone ecosystem.
They used to innovate, no doubt. But their products provide absolutely terrible value now. Great resale, sure. But you’re overpaying 20% for the hardware you’re getting which is not the case on the Android side. The only thing iPhone universally does better is 1) video and 2) ecosystem (if all your products are Apple). The rest is a tomaeto vs tomahto situation.
Not relevant to most basic users but I could not use a phone where I did not have the freedom to sideload apps, especially if I’m overpaying for the hardware.
Americans don’t really value freedom. Not really. Americans pretend they like freedom, but they will give up all their freedoms for the slightest bit of convenience, and because social media told them so.
Am I talking about consumer electronics, or politics? Impossible to say.
Tbh. It’s the same in the UK. Our governments, of both sides, are killing any perception of privacy we had and no-one is doing/saying anything.
Having said that people are mostly dealing with the terrorist inspired killings here that the are allied to the immigration issue.
The people have had enough, the governments of the last twenty years have been obvious or more likely not looking (at the disquiet).
There isn’t enough room to think of the loss of privacy/security yet. We are in a hell of a mess.
I understand the sentiment you are going for, but I think it is a little cheap regarding the opinion of 300 million+ people.
In my horribly narrow opinion, the American freedom is simply the freedom to choose. Nothing more, nothing less. The freedom to own a tiger, buy a tank or be “Florida man” for a day.
It is not “free” from manipulation and sometimes it really feels like a 5 year old choosing to do the opposite of the right thing just “because”.
Sidenote: I ABSOLUTELY do not think it is the best way to build a nurturing society, but I get why it has such a passionate supporter base.
It was a nurturing society when most were in communities that interacted with each other. We have lost that for many reasons
it is a little cheap regarding the opinion of 300 million+ people
Actually iPhones are generally a little expensive, and mostly talking about around 150 million of those 300 million people 😜:
In the United States, there were over 150 million active iPhones in 2023
https://www.statista.com/topics/4753/apple-products-in-the-us/#topicOverview
I’m a professional C# developer, and I switched to iPhone in 2020. Mostly I wanted a more controlled, curated App Store for increased confidence in a safe execution environment. I’ll pay the $100/yr for a developer account if I really need to build and run my own code.
The lack of ad block options bugs me. I also don’t use iCloud.
I have doubts about whether this question is asking or proselytizing.
Asking.
Using iPhones is fine.
But I see people being so “SovCit” then go on and use an iPhone, which is just like… wtf lol
If OP isn’t then the commenters sure are taking up the reins
Honestly, if you can tolerate the Apple ecosystem it works really well, with adequate privacy. My wife and my mother both use them and I recommend it for anyone who isn’t a privacy nerd.
If the user isn’t willing to jump through hoops to lock shit down, Apple offers a better suite across platforms for privacy and security.
Honestly, if you can tolerate the Apple ecosystem it works really well, with adequate privacy.
Not having firefox browser extensions is a huge dealbreaker tho (because Apple require some safari thing in all the browsers that breaks extentions), like imagine not being able to have uBlock Origin.
Also, I’m a bit of a pirate… Apple app store has no torrent client… 😉
You can literally set up a raspberry pi for torrents.
Why on earth would you torrent in your phone?
Why would you torrent from your phone?
Wrong tool for the job…
Why wouldn’t you?
Slow, extra data traffic, extra battery usage.
What are the upsides? I could see a phone being a great controller for a remote seedbox for sure.
You can use it with wifi, I just view phones as computers, so not using them for whatever is weird to me. If someone wants to download torrents they should go for it.
Also, I’m a bit of a pirate… Apple app store has no torrent client…
I sideload iTorrent on my iPhone via AltStore
Orion browser IOS has firefox and chrome extension support (doesn’t work for everything but most do)
Honestly I didn’t get an iPhone until 2021 or so and all of my android phones before then ran slow in a year or so. That never happened with my iPhones. Having recently gotten into privacy and selfhosting I have considered a pixel with graphene but don’t wanna waste money.
Worth noting I don’t use iCloud or any of those Apple related services.
I know my partner thinks the same way. My family all has them recently too. Idk why though. We mostly had Samsung before then LG earlier.
I’m sure this is part of it. All my phones before iPhone sucked. All but one person I know with Android, their phones suck(the downside of cheap phones being available). While I didn’t try every model, and I’m sure they’ve gotten better, why would I abandon something that has worked well, for something where my only experience is negative.
all of my Linux phones before then ran slow in a year or so. That never happened with my iPhones
Linux isn’t really optimized for phones so they are going to be terrible.
And since Apple doesn’t really sell budget phones, iPhones are always gonna be fast, so is a flagship Android phone. Its the flagship aspect that makes a phone fast, not the OS.
I recently upgraded from a six-year-old iPhone and it STILL ran crazy smoothly and fast. The battery lasted most of a day, and I never had it replaced. The only reasons I upgraded were better low-light cat pics, more space, 120hz, and USB-C. I’ll probably keep this phone for six years as well.
A few things to comment on.
| I didn’t get an iPhone until 2021 or so and all of my android phones before then ran slow in a year or so.
Like your computer, smartphones slow down when you have a lot of things running/idling in the background. They also slow down with bloatware. Cleaning your phone’s memory every so often is a smart practice to incorporate into your ownership of the device. CCleaner is the one I download every so often to do a scan and clean what I can. There’s bound to be a better app option, but that’s the one I know about and have used before.
And just so we’re on the same page, I bought a refurbished Pixel 2 back in early 2020 and it’s been running fine for me. Haven’t noticed any issues with operations except for the screen and the battery not holding its charge as long as it once did. But to be fair, my screen has a few hairpin cracks in it from dropping it on accident a couple of times. And the battery hold on any smartphone degrades with age and usage.
| That never happened with my iPhones.
You’re either super lucky or you’re the kind of person that gets a new smartphone every year or so; for some reason or another.
As I mentioned above, smartphones naturally and unnaturally get slower as they age. But let’s not forget that planned obsolescence is very much being used across the board.
I use my phones until they break or get too slow. Androids always got too slow for me. Resetting to factory default didn’t solve this so I don’t think it’s bloat.
My six-year-old iPhone was running super fast and nicely when I recently upgraded. I never had issues with performance. iOS does NOT necessitate closing background programs, also. It’s recommended you do not do that. It’s unnecessary.
I personally do not trust Google at all. Their entire business model is ads and tracking.
Apple is in no way better.
I disagree. Apple might not be perfect, but it is better than Google when it comes to ads and tracking. I know my data is encrypted, both on the device and in my cloud. And in the App Store, it tells me exactly what data is being collected by the apps I choose to install.
https://securityaffairs.com/174500/security/apple-removes-icloud-encryption-in-uk.html
Oh yeah, they really care. I guess you can be sure it’s encrypted unless… *checks notes… governments require a backdoor.
Apple received the request to add a secret government backdoor and responded by publicly disabling a popular feature to invalidate the request.
I guarantee you that Google, Microsoft, and others received identical requests, but we’ve heard crickets from them. Implication being everyone except Apple silently complied.
I’ll believe that when they shut down their encrypted services in the US, where we know they were compromised by NSA’s PRISM since Snowden.
You say this like governments mandating backdoors is a new thing that hasn’t been happening.
The SolarWinds hack literally exploited the backdoors that were required by the US government.
Bullshit, this is the exact opposite of what you’re intending to say. UK government demanded a backdoor to secretly invade your privacy. They had no choice. However instead of implementing the back door into your data while leaving you with an illusion of privacy, they publicly announced you have no expectation of privacy in the U.K, they kept their privacy implementation secure and no longer use it in the UK
Short of leaving the market entirely, what better response could you hope for.? Save your anger for the U.K. government
I mean, they had to demand it. Unlike with google who gladly gives them access.
You’re not even making an argument, just an assertion. Are you by chance a software engineer? If you really understand what Google is doing on a technical level, there is no comparison. No they are not the same. No Apple is not just as bad. Just think about it, Google makes their money selling businesses ads. Apple makes their money selling you a phone. The incentives are very different.
Apple also sells ads, their ad business just isn’t as big as google’s.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corebluetooth/advertising-data
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1330127/apple-ad-revenue-worldwide/
In 2022, Apple generated 4.7 billion U.S. dollars with its global advertising business.
But sure, they’re not the same. Apple’s advertising is working on you.
The ads are in the app store and about apps. Googles ads are all over the web and they’ve embedded trackers in every website that call home and tell google what you’re up to. Most android apps also have Google libraries in them that track you. Chrome monitors your off Google activity. Gmail extracts purchase receipts from online shopping and monitors your spending to serve ads. Meanwhile, Apple forced app developers to ask for permission to track users and pissed off the entire tech industry. The two are not the same from a user privacy perspective. Apple also does not have trackers all over the web and does not read your email. Also, $4.7 billion is peanuts to Apple. Their annual is roughly $400 billion. Ads for them are a fart in the wind. Google meanwhile makes 75% its money on ads. I don’t trust them at all.
The binary choice is the freedom. As many people in this thread have discussed, it’s not a real choice, but it’s simple enough that most people will put on blinders and accept the available options.
I use iPhone. It sucks but network effect from people in my circle brought me here
I have no need for third party apps.
For anything beyond texting or scrolling, I have a desktop.
Defying mask mandates wasn’t due to a ‘love for freedom’ but due to delusions and selfishness.
So why not get a cheap android instead?
android user now but basically… it might be that most of us Americans try to take the path of least resistance or whatever doesn’t give us headaches. I mean like, almost everything we do (except taxes) are pretty simplified. And even for taxes, we can LITERALLY pay for services to simplify or do it for us ( like wtf, this is kinda stupid). Apple does a good job of making it an easy experience.
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easy to use - like an automatic car vs manual car.
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popular apps just work - I don’t think its a problem now but I remember when some social media apps were just broken on android vs iphone.
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a lot of the software looks pretty clean and fancy. Gives it a polished experience.
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HARD TO LEAVE - Apple products work better with other apple products. Once you leave, you basically lose out on all the purchases you’ve made over the years.
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Apple store support - life saver for most people
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Security updates more consistent.
Hell, trying to adjust from typing with iphone keyboard to android keyboard took longer than expected.
Also our government issues out iphones for fed employees.
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It’s status. Apple is regarded as more expensive and high quality.
Except the most expensive phones on the market are android devices.
It’s actually incredibly difficult to tell if someone has the latest iPhone or one that is five years old.
Exactly.
The short answer is capitalism. Wasting money is a status symbol.
