Okay, this is not an iPhone vs Android Phone debate. I respect your right to choose whichever platform that you want.
I mean, iPhone seems so antithetical with the idea of freedom. You have to connect it to a server to even use it, all apps have to go through a centralized server, no option to install whatever apps you want, which means, you literally cannot have any third-party apps without an online account.
Most of my fellow americans seems to love the idea of freedom so much, yet just buy into a closed ecosystem with no freedom? 🤔
Like almost 60% of Americans use iPhone, kinda weird to preach freedom when you cant even have an app without a corporation’s approval. If it were any other country, I wouldn’t find it weird, but for a country that’s obsessed with the idea of freedom (so much so that they disobeyed mask mandates), it’s really weird to be using a device with zero freedom.
You must log in or register to comment.
Fuck iPhones.
The answer is marketing by Apple and mobile carriers, which lean on peer pressure via iMessage. Plus the iPhone built on the success of the iPod, which led the market for mp3 players.
- iphones are the first recognized “smartphone”.
- apple is an american company.
- apple has a massive fanbase that is completely dedicated to apple and all their products.
i’m not sure what the global usage of apple products is, but i think here it’s probably a lot higher than in other places. throw in the fact that there’s only one device capable of (legally) running apple’s mobile software, and there you have it.
also, their advertising didn’t hurt either. no one on the android side had the kind of advertising they did until maybe 6 or 7 years later and by that time you were probably already well established in the iphone ecosystem.
They used to innovate, no doubt. But their products provide absolutely terrible value now. Great resale, sure. But you’re overpaying 20% for the hardware you’re getting which is not the case on the Android side. The only thing iPhone universally does better is 1) video and 2) ecosystem (if all your products are Apple). The rest is a tomaeto vs tomahto situation.
Not relevant to most basic users but I could not use a phone where I did not have the freedom to sideload apps, especially if I’m overpaying for the hardware.
Americans don’t really value freedom. Not really. Americans pretend they like freedom, but they will give up all their freedoms for the slightest bit of convenience, and because social media told them so.
Am I talking about consumer electronics, or politics? Impossible to say.
I understand the sentiment you are going for, but I think it is a little cheap regarding the opinion of 300 million+ people.
In my horribly narrow opinion, the American freedom is simply the freedom to choose. Nothing more, nothing less. The freedom to own a tiger, buy a tank or be “Florida man” for a day.
It is not “free” from manipulation and sometimes it really feels like a 5 year old choosing to do the opposite of the right thing just “because”.
Sidenote: I ABSOLUTELY do not think it is the best way to build a nurturing society, but I get why it has such a passionate supporter base.
it is a little cheap regarding the opinion of 300 million+ people
Actually iPhones are generally a little expensive, and mostly talking about around 150 million of those 300 million people 😜:
In the United States, there were over 150 million active iPhones in 2023
https://www.statista.com/topics/4753/apple-products-in-the-us/#topicOverview
It was a nurturing society when most were in communities that interacted with each other. We have lost that for many reasons
Tbh. It’s the same in the UK. Our governments, of both sides, are killing any perception of privacy we had and no-one is doing/saying anything.
Having said that people are mostly dealing with the terrorist inspired killings here that the are allied to the immigration issue.
The people have had enough, the governments of the last twenty years have been obvious or more likely not looking (at the disquiet).
There isn’t enough room to think of the loss of privacy/security yet. We are in a hell of a mess.
Honestly, if you can tolerate the Apple ecosystem it works really well, with adequate privacy. My wife and my mother both use them and I recommend it for anyone who isn’t a privacy nerd.
If the user isn’t willing to jump through hoops to lock shit down, Apple offers a better suite across platforms for privacy and security.
deleted by creator
You can literally set up a raspberry pi for torrents.
Why on earth would you torrent in your phone?
Why would you torrent from your phone?
Wrong tool for the job…
Why wouldn’t you?
Slow, extra data traffic, extra battery usage.
What are the upsides? I could see a phone being a great controller for a remote seedbox for sure.
You can use it with wifi, I just view phones as computers, so not using them for whatever is weird to me. If someone wants to download torrents they should go for it.
Orion browser IOS has firefox and chrome extension support (doesn’t work for everything but most do)
Also, I’m a bit of a pirate… Apple app store has no torrent client…
I sideload iTorrent on my iPhone via AltStore
Honestly I didn’t get an iPhone until 2021 or so and all of my android phones before then ran slow in a year or so. That never happened with my iPhones. Having recently gotten into privacy and selfhosting I have considered a pixel with graphene but don’t wanna waste money.
Worth noting I don’t use iCloud or any of those Apple related services.
I know my partner thinks the same way. My family all has them recently too. Idk why though. We mostly had Samsung before then LG earlier.
I’m sure this is part of it. All my phones before iPhone sucked. All but one person I know with Android, their phones suck(the downside of cheap phones being available). While I didn’t try every model, and I’m sure they’ve gotten better, why would I abandon something that has worked well, for something where my only experience is negative.
deleted by creator
I recently upgraded from a six-year-old iPhone and it STILL ran crazy smoothly and fast. The battery lasted most of a day, and I never had it replaced. The only reasons I upgraded were better low-light cat pics, more space, 120hz, and USB-C. I’ll probably keep this phone for six years as well.
A few things to comment on.
| I didn’t get an iPhone until 2021 or so and all of my android phones before then ran slow in a year or so.
Like your computer, smartphones slow down when you have a lot of things running/idling in the background. They also slow down with bloatware. Cleaning your phone’s memory every so often is a smart practice to incorporate into your ownership of the device. CCleaner is the one I download every so often to do a scan and clean what I can. There’s bound to be a better app option, but that’s the one I know about and have used before.
And just so we’re on the same page, I bought a refurbished Pixel 2 back in early 2020 and it’s been running fine for me. Haven’t noticed any issues with operations except for the screen and the battery not holding its charge as long as it once did. But to be fair, my screen has a few hairpin cracks in it from dropping it on accident a couple of times. And the battery hold on any smartphone degrades with age and usage.
| That never happened with my iPhones.
You’re either super lucky or you’re the kind of person that gets a new smartphone every year or so; for some reason or another.
As I mentioned above, smartphones naturally and unnaturally get slower as they age. But let’s not forget that planned obsolescence is very much being used across the board.
My six-year-old iPhone was running super fast and nicely when I recently upgraded. I never had issues with performance. iOS does NOT necessitate closing background programs, also. It’s recommended you do not do that. It’s unnecessary.
I use my phones until they break or get too slow. Androids always got too slow for me. Resetting to factory default didn’t solve this so I don’t think it’s bloat.
I personally do not trust Google at all. Their entire business model is ads and tracking.
Apple is in no way better.
I disagree. Apple might not be perfect, but it is better than Google when it comes to ads and tracking. I know my data is encrypted, both on the device and in my cloud. And in the App Store, it tells me exactly what data is being collected by the apps I choose to install.
https://securityaffairs.com/174500/security/apple-removes-icloud-encryption-in-uk.html
Oh yeah, they really care. I guess you can be sure it’s encrypted unless… *checks notes… governments require a backdoor.
I mean, they had to demand it. Unlike with google who gladly gives them access.
Bullshit, this is the exact opposite of what you’re intending to say. UK government demanded a backdoor to secretly invade your privacy. They had no choice. However instead of implementing the back door into your data while leaving you with an illusion of privacy, they publicly announced you have no expectation of privacy in the U.K, they kept their privacy implementation secure and no longer use it in the UK
Short of leaving the market entirely, what better response could you hope for.? Save your anger for the U.K. government
Apple received the request to add a secret government backdoor and responded by publicly disabling a popular feature to invalidate the request.
I guarantee you that Google, Microsoft, and others received identical requests, but we’ve heard crickets from them. Implication being everyone except Apple silently complied.
I’ll believe that when they shut down their encrypted services in the US, where we know they were compromised by NSA’s PRISM since Snowden.
You say this like governments mandating backdoors is a new thing that hasn’t been happening.
The SolarWinds hack literally exploited the backdoors that were required by the US government.
You’re not even making an argument, just an assertion. Are you by chance a software engineer? If you really understand what Google is doing on a technical level, there is no comparison. No they are not the same. No Apple is not just as bad. Just think about it, Google makes their money selling businesses ads. Apple makes their money selling you a phone. The incentives are very different.
Apple also sells ads, their ad business just isn’t as big as google’s.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corebluetooth/advertising-data
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1330127/apple-ad-revenue-worldwide/
In 2022, Apple generated 4.7 billion U.S. dollars with its global advertising business.
But sure, they’re not the same. Apple’s advertising is working on you.
The ads are in the app store and about apps. Googles ads are all over the web and they’ve embedded trackers in every website that call home and tell google what you’re up to. Most android apps also have Google libraries in them that track you. Chrome monitors your off Google activity. Gmail extracts purchase receipts from online shopping and monitors your spending to serve ads. Meanwhile, Apple forced app developers to ask for permission to track users and pissed off the entire tech industry. The two are not the same from a user privacy perspective. Apple also does not have trackers all over the web and does not read your email. Also, $4.7 billion is peanuts to Apple. Their annual is roughly $400 billion. Ads for them are a fart in the wind. Google meanwhile makes 75% its money on ads. I don’t trust them at all.
The binary choice is the freedom. As many people in this thread have discussed, it’s not a real choice, but it’s simple enough that most people will put on blinders and accept the available options.
I use iPhone. It sucks but network effect from people in my circle brought me here
I have no need for third party apps.
For anything beyond texting or scrolling, I have a desktop.
Defying mask mandates wasn’t due to a ‘love for freedom’ but due to delusions and selfishness.
So why not get a cheap android instead?
Usamericans usually like to look for “the best”, whatever that means, and never accept “second”. I assume that they need that to feed their pride.
Apple has managed to make them believe that iPhone products were the best smartphones, and all of Apple’s marketing is focused on maintaining that belief.
Came here to say the same thing. Americans are brainwashed from a young age by advertising and classism. They have easily fallen into the advertising that crApple has about some ‘superior lifestyle’. And actually crApple is just an over priced UI that attracts idiots. It’s a mentality.
cringe
Not an American, but as an iPhone user who has had Android phones since cupcake before: iPhones „just work“, they are a lot less janky than Android, the ecosystem is smooth (although admittedly and intentionally less so when leaving it), they get updated for longer (and at the same time!) and apple has a much better privacy track record than the competition (a low bar).
Yes, I would prefer to install my apps from anywhere I want on the device I should own. An open source phone from top to bottom would be my dream, but Android is about as far removed from that as an iphone. Google took Linux and made it into a Frankenstein nightmare that is wholly dependent on them.
Just try to stick to open source and make your phone respect your privacy and see how far you get. Start at the usually locked bootloader, install a rom without google and see how few apps are left that do not require google services. And even then you are most likely dependent on binary blobs for the drivers, meaning the manufacturers can (and will) pull the rug from under your efforts as soon as they no longer feel like updating their shitty built of Android for the device in time.
I do not have time for that. What I have is enough money to buy a phone that comes as close as possible to my idea of safety, freedom and privacy without constantly jumping through burning hoops. If I am to be in a cage, it better be golden.
An open source phone from top to bottom would be my dream, but Android is about as far removed from that as an iphone. Google took Linux and made it into a Frankenstein nightmare that is wholly dependent on them.
have you considered flashing custom roms on it? e/OS, LineageOS and GrapheneOS (restricted to google pixel for hardware+privacy/security reasons) are all opensource.
Graphene. Don’t try the others if you aren’t prepared for an uphill battle. Graphene just works.
I agree that graphene is the hands down best. But for people who have a device and want to switch, and that device is not a google pixel, well that severely limits your options.
As soon as you start flashing custom firmware the “just works” goes right out of the window.
they are a lot less janky than Android
What did you find so problematic and unsolvable?
Just to say. I recently jumped from Android and the iPhone didn’t just work like I remember they did. Two bugs I had were adding comments on Reddit using Firefox. The keyboard would come up but my text would be off screen so I couldn’t see what I was typing. This could be a Firefox bug but it was still very weird and not one I’d seen on Android.
One bug that used to get annoying is I’d unlock the phone and when going to type, the volume would be at max briefly before going back to the volume the phone was set at. This caught me out a few times in the middle of the night.
I couldn’t get on with iOS and felt that after not using it since the iPhone 4S that nothing had really improved. Also the lack of being able to use uBlock Origin on Firefox was awful. It’s been a while since I browsed the web without an adblocker and I really hated having to do something every day. Eventually I sold the 16 Pro I had and went back to my Pixel 8.
The one thing I remember being great about the iPhone was when you upgrade you restore the backup and the phone just works. With Android you typically have to go around and login to all the apps again. Again a developer issue but certainly easier on iOS.
This could be a Firefox bug but it was still very weird and not one I’d seen on Android.
This is likely directly related to the fact that Apple blocks use of any other web renderer than Webkit based on App store guidelines.
This means neither Chrome nor Firefox on iOS are actually the normal versions. Normally Chrome uses Blink and Firefox uses Gecko, but they both use Webkit on iOS.
(Yeah, I know this thread was meant to be about Americans specifically, but this proves they can be forced to allow it!)
Android restores all your logins too.
It really doesn’t. It’s down to the developer. I would say that easily 75% app I use wanted me to set them up again.
Because an iPhone isn’t “that” expensive when you buy it on a plan. I mean it’s only $38 CAD for the new iPhone 6e on a Contract. That’s with my paycheque to paycheque budget. /s
Though honestly that’s the mind set of these users. Sure they are literally paying $100+ CAD more than MSRP. But to them since it includes the data it’s a good deal.
Now bellow is my view as a guy who manages and orgs fleet of Samsung phone, developed apps for both Android and iOS, and is the defacto IT guy for my family.
I think the lean towards iPhones comes from budget Android being crap, and peer pressure from those around them. Get a cheap A series Samsung or a Budget Acer and you are just asking for a slow and buggy experience where the mic will just stop working after 2 years. Or it’s running Android One.
Even an older iPhone like the 6s is still supported by many apps. Plus since it once had flagship specs. The soc has more power and runs better than anything new from Android. It’s the same logic that if you get an older iPad for the same price as a new Fire Tablet the iPad will be better than a fire tablet.
The solution is to get a more expensive Android. But once you get to the price point of a Samsung S series, you might as well get an iPhone. The price is comparable, and you don’t loose out on features like the App Store (google play is a steaming pile in comparison). Plus iMessage and FaceTime is seamless and Airdrop “just works”.
My relative had Android for years and struggled to use them. I finally convinced one of them to use an iPhone XR by the time the 14 was coming out, and now my Nan is texting and doing FaceTime. They could’ve done this before with the budget Android their carrier gave them. But the work Apple did to make it feel intuitive is brilliant. In fact because of the confidence boost from the iPhone, she’s even gotten herself an iPad to do her crossword puzzles.
On top of that, unlike Apple. There is no guarantee that if you pay more for you Android that I’ll keep getting support. Most phones struggle to offer more than 2 years. And with the fiasco around the Pixel 4 battery, it’s hard to believe the biggest players “promises”. Compare that to Apple and while the promise 7 years, realistically it can be 10 years.
For me the reason I swapped over was the Play Store being hot garbage. And the disgusting amount of uninstallable bloat on it. I tried for years to install custom ROMs and midrange Chinese phones to get around it. While it works, I grew tired of the work required just to keep my phone up to date. And the loss of built in features since I was going u official. Like the loss of 2/3 cameras in the app (trying to find a cracked gcamera which enables both is a chore), and contactless pay (evolution x worked sometime, and locked me out other time).
Don’t get me wrong iOS isn’t better than Android. I miss my headphone jack, FDroid, side loading my own apps, the ease of adding custom ringtones, and custom launcher. Oh and being able to use 3rd party web browsers that aren’t skins of Safari (WebKit). But when updates come through I’m not concerned. My contactless pay works. Ad blocking is possible and I can’t complain about the cameras.
I recently upgraded my six-year-old iPhone to the latest, highest end version… the OS was fully supported still, and it ran amazingly fast. The battery was original and lasted most of a day without charging.
I have to agree with all of your points.
Also on your last point… this new phone’s cameras are INSANE. I have yet to see any other phone match how incredible pictures turn out. Especially pictures of my cats in a very dark room. My old phone would take kinda blurry dark room pics, but the fur detail in even a nearly pitch-black room is ridiculous.
The iPhone came out before Android, so Apple had first mover advantage it could solidify to a sticky user base.
Also, a “free” Android experience only occurs when you’ve got full control of everything. Android was a lot more willing to give up control to third parties, including carriers. With Apple, you’re only giving control to one company.
I think you overestimate the value of those first two years.
What else justifies 60% market penetration?
I mean apple has spent at least the last decade using iMessage as a way to bring people into the platform and keep them there. Ie the articles from a few years back about using it to manipulate teenager behavior a la Instagram, or the epic games discovery documents which indicated this was a deliberate and cruel strategy from apple to lock ignorant people into their platform to avoid losing their social network.
Tldr: they deliberately try to make people lose friends if they leave the platform. You might say “shit friends” and I’d agree, but this is the FUD that apple spreads.
So they used the first two years to build a consumer user base in the way that RIM couldn’t and then was able to defend its market share.
The iMessage strategy couldn’t work if people didn’t buy in.
Freedom is not one thing. The choice between iOS and Android is not a choice between zero freedom and unlimited freedom. You’re simply choosing which freedoms you want to prioritize.
I’m planning to switch to an Android device running an alternative OS with my next purchase after using iPhone exclusively since the 3g. That’s driven by a change in priorities: I want the freedom that comes from using a phone that isn’t a surveillance and advertising vehicle. For years now though, I’ve been enjoying the freedom of knowing my phone will continue to receive updates for a minimum of 5 years after I buy it new while some of my Android friends will be lucky if they get two.
People confuse freedom with variety
Your definition of freedom is an interesting one
Yep! Like I said, freedom is more than one thing. The way this questions is framed tries to put the blinders on and obscure that fact, creating a false equivalency between the freedom to sideload software and some abstract notion of “absolute freedom” which doesn’t actually exist. We’re rarely choosing between absolute freedom and zero freedom, certainly not in this case.
Tbh androids privacy is shit. I’d rather deal with Apple than Google both on hardware and privacy any day. The only way I’d switch is to something like Graphene
