A superpower by definition cannot really be a rogue state. A “rogue state” is a political label applied by dominant powers to states that defy the international order. For example Iran or North Korea are considered rogue states because they defy the international order. What is “the international order”?
Well, it’s the combination post-WW2 institutions created by none other than the US. The UN, IMF, NATO, etc. They set the norms of “legitimate” behavior. When the US participates in military interventions, economic sanctions, and other aggressive actions it’s framed as upholding “rules-based order” whereas identical actions by weaker states get them condemned with the label as “rogue states”.
To call the US a rogue state is to misunderstand power. Hegemony is the ability to define reality, not just defy it. In this way, the US has always been a rogue state in the sense that it does whatever it wants regardless of the international norms. I mean, just look at the mid 1900s and its actions in Latin America. It was involved in about a dozen states toppling governments and supporting military dictatorships- including sponsoring the genocide of natives in Guatemala.
Americans for the most part are only dimly aware there’s an outside world in the first place. The amount of covering up that needs to be done is minimal.
It figures it takes someone calling themselves “CanadaPlus” to actually see the actual question and answer it.
Everyone else is answering about how aware Americans are about what’s happening, but the question was about whether Americans were aware of how the world perceived the US. The answer, of course, is “no, Americans have no idea because Americans consume almost no non-American media”.
This kind of question coming up a lot is why I chose the name, haha.
I had a friend that that looked like they were offended when they found out Australian Idol was a thing and it wasn’t just in America.
Yep. The concept that there’s a symmetry between countries is a few degrees of separation away from many Americans, I guess. It’s not weirder to have an Australian Idol than an American one. I’ve also had conversation where they assume people in other countries are patriotic for America. Like, even in the first world we all sit around wishing we were American.
Famously, many (most?) of them can’t even identify the continents on a map. I’d be interested to see Chinese tested the same way, since I’ve heard they’re on the same level of insularity, being another massive superpower.
It wasn’t even originally an American thing, it’s from the UK.
Wait, is it just called “Idol” there?
Pop Idol.
Exactly. Hence the name distinguishing it as the “American” one… People (Americans?) are so dumb.
I own guns now. I never did or even considered it until the election results in November.
Those of us who aren’t Team Orange or completely oblivious know, I think. An appalling number of people are completely disconnected from what’s happening, and a disgusting number either don’t care or love it.
I lost the last shred of faith I had in the American people with this election. I delight in the suffering of every shithead that either voted Trump, 3rd party, or not at all. ESPECIALLY the protest voters, conservative minorities, and rural idiots stupid enough to think Trump cared about them or was somehow a better because they didn’t like something the Biden administration did. My schadenfreude levels are hitting new, bitter peaks there.
The Biden administration aided and abbetted genocide. The American monoparty would be proceeding exactly as planned under genocide Harris as it is doing now, just slightly more slowly.
BoTH sIDes ARe tHe SaMe!!!1!
Now you’re getting it!
Ah, I was mocking you. Kind of makes it less fun when I have to explain it, but considering my audience it’s to be expected.
There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Or more likely, you believe white lives to be more valuable, and you take offense now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
“Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?”
And
“Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!”
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the “good old days” of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
Liberals are just as much reactionaries as conservatives. They simply disagree on which status quo they’d like to return to and who is acceptable to exploit.
the other guy pretty clearly meant liberal in a social & political philosophy sense and not a “liberal v conservative” modern american political theater one. i won’t speak for ferrous but i would imagine that’s why you didn’t get a reply of sorts yet. it’s kind of surprising and unsettling the amount of upvotes your comments have relative to each other but then again it seems reading comprehension is a skill more and more left to a select few.
like, anyone from .ml probably means liberal in that sense but in the particular context of this comment he definitely did and i’m confused why you’re getting upvoted when your reply is nonsensical considering liberalism is not diametric to conservative ideology within most frameworks.
sorry not to be a chode but wishy washy symbols like the ambiguity of the word “liberal” in modern discourse is a large part of what has landed us here in the first place.
[…] now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
That’s nothing new, that’s happened before.
Then explain the shock coming from Europe.
Its been a long time since then?
No, it hasn’t. The US is waging a proxy war that requires the EU to bear the consequences. They even destroyed one of your pipelines, and caused one of the worst environmental disasters in history right off the coast, and Europe didn’t make a peep about it.
That’s why I wrote “…now definitely a rogue state”. Not that there was much of a question before but now it should be obvious even to US-citizens.
Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I’ve seen two classes:
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Those in denial and ignorant in general (don’t really follow the news), who don’t believe for example that Trump is deporting people without due process, and blatantly violating the law and constitution.
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Those who are so sucked into the MAGA own-the-libs circle-jerk that even when presented with the facts and proof of Trump doing something blatantly illegal, will usually retort with something like “oh so when the Democrats do it it’s okay, but now the Trump is doing it it’s wrong??? You fucking communist!”
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It’s the only explanation I have. These aren’t random people I don’t know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don’t see a way to help them that doesn’t involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it’s going to make me resent them, and I don’t want that.
Note, that this isn’t actually the question. It’s not whether Americans are aware of what’s happening, it’s about whether Americans are aware of how the rest of the world perceives the US.
I have the experience. Close friends consumed by the alt-rightosphere. These are (arguable were) caring people who’d stop and help strangers stranded on side of the road. People I considered like minded. But now it’s “Democrats are pedophiles, Clinton flew with Epstein and here’s how the election was stolen” (the irony is not lost on me).
Trying to discuss this constructively just doesn’t work. It always ends with 😡👉"Your information is wrong and you’re being brainwashed"👈😔 you can show them all of the stuff but their eyes glaze over and they’re just thinking about how to find an article that either: Spins how the negative thing is actually good or just outright false.
You are just a bit right, because you base your politics opinion on few, literally just few examples that you know for the entire population. I’m not saying youre wrong, but well, your experience might suggest right people are caring, while left is not, while one’s experience might be the same but for left people. But definitely and we can see that in different surveys etc. that right people are just ignorant. They don’t care what their leaders do as long as it doesn’t impact them, and why is that bad? Because exactly the same way Hitler took the dictatorship. I believe both, left and right people are good, it just depends on a specific individual if hes not good, but the important thing in democracy is you have to care, no matter at which side you are, but you have to care about politics, and let the information in, not stay untouched when clearly basic humans right are being invaded.
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We’re inundated with propaganda. Our media is state run. All for-profit media is state run.
Leftists, of course. Liberals will continue to be in denial for the foreseeable future. Conservatives just dgaf.
Many Americans are unaware of the problems due to media censorship.
However they’re creating so many problems that even those with blinders on are seeing this shit.
As is typical for the US, 1/3 are deeply aware, 1/3 are in full “patriotic” support, and 1/3 are too distracted by the latest TikTok dance to notice.
In a burning house with three people, one is fighting the fire, one is pouring gasoline on everything and one is on the couch watching TV.
Let’s add a 4th person in there, someone who thinks they’re helping by doing nothing but yelling that the fire isn’t allowed to burn things
More like yelling at the one fighting the fire because they’re getting water everywhere
If more of you would have voted for Jill Stein, we wouldn’t be in this mess!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
It’s you. They’re talking about you.
Please, elaborate…
Democrats are the ones criticizing the ones actually trying to put out the fire but doing jack shit about it.
What’s more, they’re the ones who doused the house with gas not a half a year ago, and whenever they’re not delighting in the terror going “oh I bet you must love it, you didn’t vote for the lady with the matches and now you got the guy with the flamethrower” they’re passing his budgets, they’re complying with Musk’s unelected goons, they’re getting on with his Gaza agenda and largely silent about the protestors getting kidnapped.
Asking for donations isn’t resisting, it’s ransom.
“If you had just picked a better water bucket, we wouldn’t be in this mess. It’s your fault if the house burns down.”
I really don’t like how y’all just described everybody
I wish 1/3 of the USA were trying to put the fire out… The majority of this third are just watching in horror how the fire consumes their house
They are really earnestly and as hard as they can trying to put the raging fire out with a cheap children’s water pistol that isn’t working very well.
100% this. Every other memper of my family voted for this. I do my best, but they’re so blinded by the media and their own bias that it’s almost impossible to convince them on even 1 topic.
Its incredibly sad and frustrating actually
The fact that you are there and aware of what is happening to your country is hope for change. I always sound doom and gloom in my posts but I’m also hopeful for the change. I’m Indigenous Canadian and my entire life has always felt like failure in everything me and my family has been exposed to for generations. The greatest thing I learned from all of it is to never give up … even in the face of overwhelming odds.
And Lemmy is disproportionately representative of the 1/3 who are aware.
If you look at the comments on a random public social media post, you’ll find the delusional third or half.
It basically boils down to where they’re getting their information, or rather, whether it’s information or “information”. A large swath of the population is so propagandized by right wing rag “media” that they are functionally incapable of rational thought.
I don’t think that applies here. 1/3 in each group is fair for domestic matters. But, OP is asking about perceptions of the US by people in other countries.
In that case, even the 1/3 that is opposed to what’s happening will contain a lot of people with no idea how the rest of the world sees the US. For example, of the 1/3 of Americans who deeply oppose what’s happening, what fraction do you think actually read Le Monde or Deutsche Welle, or are even aware that they have an English-language service?
And, the 1/3 that is fully supportive of what’s happening will contain a lot of people who think that this is improving how the rest of the world sees the US. Sure, some will be aware and will still be defiant in the face of how the rest of the world is reacting. But, others will be watching Fox News or Newsmax and will hear propaganda that convinces them that the rest of the world admires and respects the US more than ever for taking a decisive stand against the deep state.
So, as with anything involving something happening outside the US, I’d guess more than 50% of Americans have no idea what the rest of the world is thinking.
should have voted democrat i guess
I think there’s another 1/3 - maybe at intersection of them all.
A great many people in shock, and don’t realise this is just America mask-off.
It’s standard American foreign policy and has been for 60 years. The wars they have started, the regime change, it’s all standard. Ask anyone in South America or the Middle East.
am from south america, can confirm. my country was couped by the cia, and we are still suffering from the consequences.
*100 years … America has been doing this since before any of the world wars
Depends. Everyone who voted against Trump knows this and it’s probably why they did but most non voters and maga are still ignorant.
The last administration proposed sanctioning the ICC
We have first past the past voting here, this means we don’t vote based on who we like but rather who is the lesser of two evils.
It makes it easy for good and smart people here to support things like this, even if they don’t want to, because the alternative is worse.
The irony is that had the previous administration followed what Obama and Clinton and every other previous administration did on the border topic, they would have won in a landslide. But now the corruption of the last few years is being revealed and it’ll be interesting to see the fallout over the next few years.
The Biden admin and Dems literally tried giving the majority of the people what they wanted and the Reps stopped them to make Biden and the Dems look bad and the irony is Biden and the Dems were ready to give the Reps what they’ve been asking for with the border and immigration for years.
Imagine reading some fiction book, like fantasy or something like that.
You see a state that was created by genocide, which was continued until there was barely anyone left to kill, which state then became world hegemon, took control over nearly entire planet economy and proceeded to find new targets for genocide, ecocide, invasion, looting and murdering every political opponent.
You would think it’s caricaturally evil, worse than Mordor.
And here you ask “they are now definitely a rogue state”? Now?
Fuck off with this fucking shit. I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland. I never owned fucking slaves. I wasn’t even considered white until a few decades ago. I am so sick of this shit from you people not understanding that so many Americans are here because fascism forced us here too.
I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland.
No, you’re there because the people already there decided to let your family in.
Them being in a position to let you in js a crucial factor. And the reason their society got to control that is because of what they had done to other people beforehand.
No one is asking you to feel guilt and no one is blaming you. But facts are facts.
You still benefit from white privilege. If it weren’t for your pale skin, you most likely would’ve been deported or murdered before you even tried. Your privilege in USA is still based on your skin tone. Now you’re supporting fascism here with you white victimhood story. Everybody in USA has some sad tale. Fuck off with your bullshit, yt.
That person is delusional. If North America were a group of Indigenous nations it wouldn’t have been a major immigration target for European refugees.
True. But what I mean above all is that the US is now more unpredictable in terms of foreign policy than ever before.
Yeah. The usa has always been relatively evil… But also fairly predictable .
Also worth noting that pretty much every country ever has been evil, with a few notable exceptions —of which none of the eu are included in
What’s poor old Luxembourg ever done to offend you so?
A billionaire tax haven where over 50% of the labourers are non-citizens?
Probably something to do with money? Just a guess 🤷♂️
Brits: phew, at least we’re safe!
It sure does look more unpredictable, but is it really? They continue basically everything except trying to wrap up Ukraine and fuck up and loot Europe, but marxists were saying this will happen years ago already (and regardless of which government will be at helm, so it is by no means unpredictable. The one thing that changed is the presentation, it is more honest but more erratic, though it is again what anyone could simply predict looking at previous Trump term and process of building his staff in preparation to the last elections.
The average person is not deeply aware of this stuff. All y’all don’t have any fucking clue what the average American is like.
Most people are just trying to get through the day. They want to pay their bills and make sure the kids are fed and Sally needs to get to dance class and Bobby has been having problems at school and now the boss wants to get that foundation poured tomorrow so you’re gonna have to stay late, but your wife can’t leave work early to pick up the kids so now you have to deal with that and oh, eggs cost double what they did a year ago and you haven’t gotten a real raise since 2021.
They don’t have time to spend on Lemmy, figure out how to use Linux, learn what a tariff is, or debate the difference between gender and sex, or read about what the Heritage Foudnation does. I do, but I’m not most people and the more y’all keep acting like those people aren’t like you people the more problems you’re gonna keep making for yourself.
Grow the fuck up
You don’t need to bring Reddit energy to lemmy. You don’t need to end your post with “grow the fuck up”. No reason whatsoever why you can’t post and write a reply without resorting to anger or agression.
I’m not from the US - that’s why I’m asking. Thanks for the insights into the lives of US citizens. It’s even sadder than I thought. But rest assured: it’s not like this everywhere in the world. Not yet at least and the rest of the world just needs to see that your horrible government doesn’t force your way of life on everyone - because that’s what Trump and his criminal crew want.
I felt safer roaming in Detroit’s urban decay than traveling through a village or town in a red run welfare state.
They don’t ever browse the internet?
They never watch tv?
And they never have conversations with somebody who has?I’d assume the average american has a rough idea of what’s going on. You’d have to try pretty hard to avoid it.
Of course people are going to prioritise their daily issues and the things that directly affect them, but don’t pretend that nobody ever gets spare time. There wouldn’t be multi-billion dollar media companies if that were the case.
It just seems like people prefer media consumption / escapism over education.
What internet? The one algorithmically controlled by the oligarchs?
What TV? The stations that were purchased years ago by our country’s oligarchs?
What conversations? When everyone around them is being fed the same misinformation, and they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy?
I would not assume the average American has any idea what is going on.
they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy
There’s the problem.
Are you suggesting that the algorithms for every website are pro-trump?
Algorithms mostly care about profit and user engagement.
Go check the front page of reddit and see how most political posts are about trump’s/america’s fuck ups.Sorry, the site that is expressly pro-Trump and has been removing comments critical of the current administration?
Beyond that, I wouldn’t even necessarily describe Reddit as a major player in the U.S. Most Americans are either part of META’s ecosystem or X, and both of those are absolutely pro-Trump.
What internet? The one algorithmically controlled by the oligarchs?
TIL that Lemmy isn’t part of the internet
Damn dude chill.
You can have a life and family and be on Lemmy or Reddit, use Linux, be a weeb or whatever they want.
Most people just choose a side and that’s that.
It’s a like a lazy mental state, I don’t blame them, life is hard and there is so much one person can focus on.
If Trump said that all Americans will become rich, then all Americans will become rich, it doesn’t matter the how or why.
I know people with wife and kids completly oblivious to politcs, but can talk about sports like some kind of experts, telling you all the tactics and player names. Some people just choose to ignore what is important because it’s easier.It might be you who needs to grow up. This is a weird knee jerk reaction.
Non Americans should be able to ask a question about America without being told to “grow up”.
It’s not childish to wonder how much Americans understand about how fucked up their choice of leadership is. We’re not psychic.
Bullshit. It’s easier than ever to know what’s going on in the world. There is absolutely no excuse for not knowing how bad things are.
Not being able to do much of anything about it due to having to deal with day to day concerns, I get. But as an excuse for being ignorant? Absolutely not. That’s a deliberate choice.
I think you’re projecting the deliberate choice part. It think a lot of folks can get reasonably caught up in their own lives and not look into things too deep. It’s effort to overhaul your information intake. Lots of folks have very little effort left over after work, and Its is reasonable to assume nothing has convinced them that their news is bad.
I think its easier than ever to get the info, but that still doesn’t mean its easy enough that everyone and their mom automatically knows what they should be paying attention to.
Making these things about personal failings feels very unproductive. There is a lot to focus on in life. It seems better to try and make the subject approachable and comfortable.
I know people, who should know better, that don’t know who to believe. This is when faced with both a verifiable source with a track record of accuracy, and an obviously cunning lone wolf with no substance to their argument.
For every genuine source, there is a dishonest one churning out disinformation faster than the genuine sources can because quality takes longer.
If they didn’t have kids because it was “the next step” in life they would have time.
I see the American media as softballing fascism, or they’re just outright complicit.
No one will call shit what it is, and every fucking thing in the news needs to be both-sides-ed.
This doesn’t help with the less educated grasping these basic concepts, nor does the massive stigmatization of intelligence and critical thinking, nor does the attacks on institutional education.
There’s laws constantly being passed in the form of ‘vouchers’ to drain public school funds and funnel American kids into Christian indoctrination, and our public schools are now dramatically underfunded.
So I guess I understand why more than half the population just straight up ignores politics. because reality here is really depressing.
To be fair, this is pretty similar to the way American press covered the rise of German fascism at the time
Aware and trying to let others in my circle that are unaware become aware.
