Looks like Tramp called for open season on loggers.
It’s cathartic to imagine, but we all know that even if there are dozens of environmental terrorist activities, that it won’t stop this. Wood is money.
This isn’t going to stop. It’s going to get worse even. We’re not accepting this, we’re still sitting with our thumbs up our asses wondering when it gets “bad enough” that someone comes in and saves the day.
Nobody is coming. Our world is collapsing. If we all realized this and got up and started marching we could at least stop it from getting worse.
Growing up, I watched Star Trek and ST: Next Gen. I always wondered how we could get to a kinder, more tolerant society like theirs. As I learned more about the back story, it turns out that there was a massive nuclear world war in the mid-21st century that did massive damage to the world. The society that Star Trek represents rose from the ashes of that war.
I always hoped we could reach a tolerant society without going through that, but its starting to look remarkably prescient.
it turns out that there was a massive nuclear world war in the mid-21st century that did massive damage to the world.
By the Trek timeline, that war literally starts next year and runs for thirty years. Mankind only starts to pull it’s head out of it’s ass because of first contact with the Vulcans, and that only happens because they happened to have a ship in the system when the guy building the first experimental warp engine takes it on it’s first successful test flight in 2063.
Thanks for the clarification, which only makes it more prescient.
Unfortunately, I will probably be long gone before the Vulcans arrive.
As did I, as well as other science fiction, as well as PBS documentaries and science programs… I was so sure that with all of these hopeful, positive influences and messages going into the world, that the future would be brighter and people would be more caring.
Holy shit I misjudged the way people interpret media. Most of the same people who were promoting peace and love are now threatening to kill other people over vaccinations and skin color.
One other point about the Star Trek universe though, is that in addition to almost dying to war, we also managed to create replicators that ended our scarcity-civilization. There was no more need for money and anyone could basically have whatever they wanted from then on. In our world, if you invented a machine that could solve all our problems and make all humans equal, someone would assassinate you because of it. Maybe many people would.
It used to seem there would be this universe without money or religion, and then we got to DS9, and saw the Bajoran religion, the Ferengi obsession with profit, and the gambling at Quarks.
The contentious, almost impossible dilemmas being portrayed in DS9’s themes were a reflection of the times. By the time we got to DS9, we were on the tail end of a sudden recession, race riots in LA, police brutality coming into sharp focus as more and more people started carrying video cameras, Mike Tyson went from hero to convict for rape, and the world started to shrink and become scarier. The cocaine-fueled optimism of the late 80’s was morphing into the technicolor international stage of the 90’s, increased media exposure was showing a lot of people the darkness we spent decades trying to pretend wasn’t there. Terrorism, plane crashes, wars we saw in full color on the ground, dictatorships rising and falling. We’re still feeling the effects of this reconciliation/confrontation with our actual history and social norms.
I love that this map still has the Gulf of Mexico.
I hate that this will be done to our national forests. They’re a natural treasure and should be protected for so many reasons.
🤷🏽♀️ cy@
In 200 years people will ask in disbelief why such old forests were logged down.
That’s if the planet survives till then, which at the rate things are going no way we make it that long
The planet will survive. Humans may not survive, but I’m no longer so sure that’s a bad thing…
The planet will be just fine. I’d wager that life will continue, the earth will still be filled with living creatures for a long time to come.
It just won’t include us. Or most of the things we care about.
I feel bad for all the creatures that we will be taking down with us.
IM ASKING THAT NOW!!
We know why. Because Trump sees no value in anything beyond being right. He is right to tariff Canada, because the Canadians are mean. And he is right to have national parks stripped bare, because Canada is tariffed. It’s just flawless logic. /s
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An optimist in our midst
Please stop spouting this propaganda. We have less than 2 decades of western white civilisation left. Other continents far less. It’s not helpful and it propagates this hopium and drives people to complacency.
E: your downvotes are as futile as the hopium propaganda. Truth hurts, but sets you free.
People don’t seem to be aware that there are estimates that there could be 1.2 BILLION climate refugees by 2050. And it’s not like they all just decide to migrate in that year.
We think things look fascist now? If we do not stomp out fascism immediately, there’s going to be mass genocide. If people stop being complacent right now, we could do so much better.
I don’t have my hopes up though.
Yep. There this complacent coddling that seems to have happened where people sit on fences for eons
“Let’s wait and see if we really do break 1.5ºC of warming. It’s too early to tell now” “Let’s wait and see if Trump does full Hitler. He’s got a unique style, but so many people voting for him can’t be wrong” “Let’s wait and see if we need to divest our USA interests and our military reliance. They have a difficult moment now, but surely will bounce back. They always have”
In a way, during peacetime, there is a sense of security in that fence sitting, but now, during wartime, it is the thing that costs hundreds of thousands of lives.
We’re in for a really tough ride.
Also, for those interested, there are safe spaces for people who have come off the fence. [email protected] and [email protected] and [email protected] being the most prominent on Lemmy atm.
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Pointing out imminent collapse is white replacement stuff how exactly? What even could white replacement mean in this context?
Yeah that was my bad, sorry. I misread another comment.
Sorry, sorry, sorry…
All good brother
Damn, that bait is so obvious, a newborn fish just looked at me like I was crazy for thinking it would fall for it.
The answer is because patriots aren’t willing to defend them by force.
I don’t think we have much of any old growth forests left even before this honestly.
mostly the pacific northwest. where also the giant and coastal redwood is.
Check out where our forests were at at the end of the 1800’s. 90% of the trees in Michigan were gone. All current forests are new growth and under 150 years old here in Michigan.
See ya, redwood forests!
It was nice to have a planet while it lasted, I guess.
It’s alright. We made some killer shareholder value. Can’t wait to tell the grandkids that, assuming I live that long.
Don’t worry. The planet will be fine. We may not be around, but life will persist.
First of all I’m not even sure about that. Well, I guess the tardigrades will make it. Secondly, that thought still does not fill me with joy.
Chernobyl is teeming with life and we royally fucked that up. Organisms have been found that eat oil and plastic. Humans are fragile. Life as a whole is not. Flora and fauna will persist and bounce back long after we fucked off.
A massive chunk of the Antarctic shelf broke free last month. Researchers got an ROV there the next day and found an ecosystem that was entirely cut off from the world for centuries. Life will survive, even if humanity doesn’t.
Some life. A very little.
There only needs to be a little. That’s how evolution works…
Maybe
The earth has literally gone through more rapid climate changes in the past.
Really tired of this response. It’s old. like, 80’s old. It was funny at first.
Cool story. Doesn’t make it any less true. And the reason why people keep saying it is because they are equally tired of the “OMG the planet is dying and we are destroying all life” chorus. We know. We don’t need more “awareness” raised for this problem, we need viable solutions. Ones that take the general population’s propensity for shitty behavior into account.
Doesn’t make it any less true.
What is “it” and what is “true”? Besides some of the biggest concepts the human mind can concieve. Okay, no, fine, let’s just put it in dead simple terms: human life will end in preventable, miserable horror and animal life will do the same, but rocks and amoebas may survive and barf out some other complex life forms someday.
I guess we’ll never know because we won’t be here but also the idea that that happens at all is just the best guess we’ve all agreed to for now. Maybe it’s true, maybe not. Ha ha ha. Pithy!
We don’t need more “awareness” raised for this problem, we need viable solutions. Ones that take the general population’s propensity for shitty behavior into account.
So we’re all “aware” huh. That doesn’t track with what I’m seeing but if you say so. And we already have the solutions, as you know. Have had since the 80s, ironically(?). “The population”'s propensity for shitty behavior notwithstanding.
If your solutions that you’ve had since the 80’s don’t account for people’s behavior, then you don’t actually have a solution.
It’s like the old joke with school physics problems always starting with “ignoring forces of friction and assuming a point mass…”. Yeah you can do that math and come up with an answer, but if you try to apply that answer to real life, it will likely not even come close to working.
So you want people to shut up about it so we can ignore it? Do you think the oil industry stopped their propaganda machine? The current president publicly claims climate change isn’t real ffs.
If you actually consciously posted that because you’re tired of the “our planet is dying” crowd, you are actually a legit mouthpiece spreading oil propoganda. Just wow.
Your reading comprehension sucks. I said give me solutions. It’s kind of hard to want solutions if you think there’s no problem.
And what the US president says has no bearing on this. The rest of the world already knows he’s a malicious actor; we’re just waiting for the Americans to get off their asses and do something about him.
And the reason why people keep saying it is because they are equally tired of the “OMG the planet is dying and we are destroying all life” chorus. We know. We don’t need more “awareness” raised for this problem
Is this not more then half your comment?
We clearly need more awareness if in our current predicament, someone like trump can get elected. The fact is the environment is nowhere near high enough on the list of priorities of most governments.
We also have solutions but we aren’t implementing them mainly because the goverments would rather protect their oil and car industries amongst others.
You think volume of text dictates what the final conclusion of a comment is? This is why I was questioning your reading comprehension.
And the car thing is exactly what I’m talking about when I said elsewhere that a “solution” is only a real solution if it takes peoples’ behavior into account. The reality is, people are not going to give up their cars. It isn’t going to happen (in North America, at least). So if any solution tries to include not driving as an integral part, it will fail. Hence the push for electric vehicles. Even if the grid were 100% fossil fuel based, electric cars would still be drastically better. Plus, it’s a lot easier to build out renewable grid power than it is to change peoples lifestyles.
Well it might be true, but so are most platitudes. So instead of wasting internet, pick up a stick and kick the orange, or come up with a better solution than truisms that make more harm than good
Even if technically correct, this kind of attitude
justifiesencourages pricks like Trump to misquote using only the first part, then proceed to more shit like this.
Turning the US into Isengard. Nice
Why do you think that company is called Palantir lmao. I wish I wasn’t joking, but it is this stupid if you poke around a bit at the neoreactionary obsessions with LOTR.
Wait, the neoreactionaries actually want to be like Isengard and not like, based trad gondor or something like that? I kinda figured it was just called palantir cause they thought it was a cool reference and cause peter thiel is just naturally sinister like that
The metaverse is named after a VR program in Snow Crash, in which it is a tool that an evil corporation wants to use to brainwash and enslave all of humanity except for some very rich people.
The Metaverse in Snow Crash was largely built and maintained by hacker culture though, and later leveraged as a platform for distribution more then a direct tool for control. Metaverse would still be agood reference for smaller projects like Resonite then evil corpo plot.
All this takes tech investing beyond Silicon Valley into new realms, some of them menacing to many observers. That will not worry Mr Thiel. Palantir is named after a “seeing stone” most often used by Sauron, ruler of J.R.R. Tolkien’s evil empire of Mordor in “The Lord of the Rings”. Evidently Mr Thiel, ever the contrarian, does not view Mordor as harshly as most Tolkien fans do. As he once told a friend: “I’d rather be seen as evil than incompetent.”
If you want a taste of this tech brainrot: https://er4hn.info/blog/2022.08.09-orc_selfidentity/
It’s a thing.
Yeah I hate that company and it’s name so much
thiel is obsessed with lotr, thats why he also made/or funded anduril.
Everything else aside… What the fuck is so urgent about cutting down forests that you need a emergency order to green-light it?
‘emergency’ is a word that means the executive does what they want
What the fuck is so urgent about cutting down forests that you need a emergency order to green-light it?
Replacing timber we previously got from Canada before the screaming from the industries that use lumber that is now tariffed gets too loud.
I don’t know enough about those industries to know if it’ll work, though.
I don’t think we have the sawmill capacity.
Millions of prisoners with hand tools can do that job.
and its the forests timber is not even good quality too.
probably something to distract the masses, from all the federal cuts, and tariffs from the news,
The MDF furniture must flow
Perhaps to mitigate the repercussions from tariffs on lumber from Canada. We saw a bailout for farmers impacted by his previous tariffs, the administration may actually believe the national forests can save Trump from the consequences of his actions.
Building “freedom cities” for billionaires, maybe. In his '23 announcement, it specifically stated:
Freedom Cities will be built on federal land that is undeveloped and not part of any of our country’s magnificent national parks or other natural treasures.
Which I assume means they’ll be built on your parks?
(for anyone scrolling past like, “wtf are freedom cities” - it’s feudalism. The Company Town. Literally lords and serfs type shit. Plenty of good places to read more about it, but here’s one to start.)
Profit
I guess domestic demand is high because we certainly can’t export them.
Have to urgently circumvent Congress.
Almost like they’re fully comforatble with reckless corruption.
They are fully comfortable with reckless profits. Corruption is just the price to pay.
Nothing. The “emergency order” is entirely so he doesn’t have to go through Congress to do it.
“I can do anything I want if it’s an emergency!”
“And I get to say when it’s an emergency!”
Dang i wonder if we can find example of emergency powers eroding democracy in the past now…
Not from a jedi…
But does this type of EO have legal backing?
It’s kind of a case by case basis is my understanding. The president does have pretty broad emergency powers but the courts can block any individual one if they feel it’s overstepping.
Quickly becoming his go to play. It’s how he pushed through tariffs and how he was able to auto deport all those people. There’s probably more that I’m unaware of but the amount of national emergencies the man has declared so far is kinda crazy
Maybe because the dumb fuck instituted tariffs that makes lumber prohibitively expensive? I don’t know. Nothing makes any fucking sense anymore.
This is the exact same tactic this regime will use on the 20th of April to declare martial law. I’m really curious how long it took the Germans in the late 1930’s to call it what it was.
This is a coup d’etat. Lots of people will die. The regime - even if DJT dies or gets shot - will go on. There won’t be any more fair elections. I hope these protests go from 5 million to 10 million on Saturday, because only a mass movement can stop this.
I’m really curious how long it took the Germans in the late 1930’s to call it what it was.
In Germany, by 1934 the regime had publicly admitted murdering hundreds of their opponents without trial.
And written a law after the fact which simply stated: “The measures taken on June 30, July 1 and 2, 1934 are lawful as state self-defense.”
Germans knew.I agree. But I’m just wondering if they went to the butcher to get a bit of meat if they were a acknowledging that they were living under a dictatorial regime right now?
Up until late 1944 or early 1945, most people basically just kept living their lives normally, while making some secret jokes about the regime, being annoyed by the constant air raid sirens, complaining about food shortages, actively looking away when their Jewish neighbors were arrested, and mourning their dead sons, yes.
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Why that date specifically?
90 days since the inauguration and a few other good reasons.
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Yeah I read the first sentence of the post in the image, and closed the page. No, the movement of the planets doesn’t mean Trump is declaring martial law on 4/20. For fuck sake…
If you want to go that fast and only look at the pretty picture, maybe go read comic books. It’s not just astrology bullshit. Horoscopes are bullshit, astrology when done well can be scarily accurate. Plus I’m not using astrology as the trend setter, but the trend confirmer.
The key thing you refused to read is that Musk is in charge, he’s a proven neo Nazi, and particularly adores Hitler. The rest you’ll have to read yourself. Or you can pander here for some more cheap upvotes.
PS: please lemmy, can we raise the level of discourse please and not upvote these populist comments? Stay on reddit if you just want to be a walking regex that sees “astrology” + “bullshit” = upvote.
Astrology should be derided to an extent that it’s hard to even quantify. It sounds like conspiracy theory forums are more of your jam
Don’t worry it gets downvoted there too.
Hitler was an occultist and into numerology, so is Musk. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand.
This is the typical peasants fighting among themselves while they are steamrolling their Project 2025 in broad daylight.
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It doesn’t matter what you believe you don’t have to try and convince other people that you were right and other people
I was merely using astrology to corroborate something that was already pointed out with an abundance of other really good arguments.
To me you’re just a Muppet who will dismiss the discovery of a cure for cancer because the researcher said he found a cure of cancer on his birthday. Babies and bathwater and stuff
If you think that the wealthy and the powerful of the world don’t use astrology to time their events, that’s when you lose all credibility with me.
Thank you for taking in this discussion with me
astrology when done well can be scarily accurate.
LOL no.
Well, argued I love your scientific methods I need no further proof, thank you
Yeah that’s not how science works.
You are the one making the claim (“astrology is real”) and therefore the honus is on you to provide evidence. And the saying holds true. “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
And you cannot provide that because it does not exist.
Edit: I just had another thought about your initial claim… You said that it works “when done correctly.”
I’m wondering, how does one know if the astrology was done correctly aside from the prediction ending up being correct? So wouldn’t that be a tautology?
It would be like saying that, “if you flip a coin correctly, it will always end up on tails,” with the only measure of success being “it landed on tails, therefore you flipped it correctly.” Therefore, by definition, flipping a coin “correctly” has a 100% success rate.
Do you see how meaningless all of that is?
*mass armed movement they don’t care if 100 million person manifest if they fear nothing after that and no they don’t need a reason for martial law still gonna happen with only peaceful protest
I thought when talking about the USA the arms and violence is implied. Though, historically it is curious how the French with a notorious lack of weapons wreak more havoc than them 2nd amendment folks.
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What’s on April 20…?
Scroll down for fun
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Lol, as I just pointed out in my other comment, you’re someone who sees a picture and jumps to conclusions. Don’t brigade and attempt to rob others who want to read the entire linked article.
Christ - that’s quite the logging order you’ve got there… this is an environmental disaster - just to reduce Canadian imports!?
What do they claim the emergency is?
We’re importing too much of our lumber from a foreign country (Canada), which is a national security risk to the lumber-consuming parts of our economy. I wish I were joking.
How can conservatives be okay with that? What’s even the need?
They want to conserve
the foresttheir profitsConservative stopped being about conservation before they were ever related. Some conservatives of yesteryear were conservationists, but most were merely at the smallest, most local of levels.
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Trees with rebar in them are cut all the time. Loggers are trained to examine the trees for signs before cutting into it - your rebar will leave visible scars for years, and the logger will see those signs and cut in a different area to avoid it.
I am a trained logger - I volunteer with a local youth camp clearing dead trees.
Not gonna work. They’re living beings like you, that sort of thing causes infections, by the time that a blade would hit something like that, it would likely kill the tree regardless.
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Tree law is really insane in other places. The UK has a registry of protected trees. Would be wonderful to see something like that after the oroborus is dead.
Tree law in the US can also be pretty intense. I think it varies by area though.
That’s not accurate
Remember: a can of expanding foam can disable most any vehicle when sprayed in the right places.
All these vehicles have fleet keys. No one is worried about someone stealing a logger
A pound of sugar in a gas tank is also an option.
Sugar in a gas tank will only really clog the fuel filter. Sucrose doesn’t dissolve in gasoline. Water in the fuel would be more harmful than sugar.
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That’s also what concrete delivery guys use to stop the mix from curing in the hopper when their truck gets delayed or breaks down. (Well, more specifically, soda – not sure if the carbonation is also significant.)
Its the sugar, it slows the curing of the concrete but doesn’t stop it entirely. Over about 2% concentration by weight it begins to affect the strength of the finished concrete though.
Bleach, in the radiator mythbusters did this one, sugar won’t even slow down a modern engine, water is kind of shitty but you can just drain it and restart. Bleach in the radiator will age the engine by a decade for every 10 minutes its running.
Can’t find that one – did you mean bleach in the oil tank?
That might be it!
Mothballs.
Or squirt super glue in the locks.
Sand+oil+paint mixture on the windows.
Stuff the radiator full of dryer lint.
There is no shortage of ways to cheaply and quickly fuck up equipment.
We used JB Weld in door locks. No getting that off with acetone.
2 ways to get superglue out of a lock, acetone or heating it up with a torch and make it melt. So make sure not to put some solder inside the lock before you put the superglue in. The solder would melt and get stuck inside everywhere and be impossible to remove.
Acetone fucks your paint up, which probably costs more than replacing the lock.
Do chainsaws still snap and maim their wielders when they hit rebar in trees?
They sure do! And they still ruin expensive lumber mill equipment. Just a few trees can make an entire logging job unprofitable and not worth the risk.
Bonus, it’s a felony to spike a tree, so you’d qualify for being president as well!
How do you put rebar in a tree tho? Purely hypothetical
Hypothetically, I would look up how to do it.
But, if I had to make something up on the fly, I would get a length of rebar and cut it in half at an angle so you get two equal lengths spikes, then I would find out what size trees are most likely to be targeted in a logging campaign, then climb up to that height on the tree and hammer them in.
Hypothetically.
Thank you! Hypothetically.
Trees are woke
