Very similar to those who refer to women as “uterus-havers”. Pretty much the same.
What the guys behind closed doors at the Republican Party leadership look like when they take their mask off.
…it’s how you imagine people look or it’s what you imagine people look like, but not both…
Not fair to the military veterans.
They got “That’s not a woman, it’s a female soldier” drilled into them.
Knew a guy that got the one-two punch of being a soldier then being a cop. Would describe people like “male, Caucasian, average build” when we were out at bars.
The language culture is probably the strangest part about the military, and probably the police force as well. I know the military lingo was hard to stop using, but I couldn’t imagine going from one institutional language to the next.
It’s a useful skill to have if you’re able to master it, language switching. You can establish credibility/experience or lack of depending on your audience and your intentions.
I’ve never served but sometimes people assume that I have because of how I carry myself. So I’ll avoid phrases and sayings consistent with military personnel, maybe toss in words used in movies and video games to give the impression that my knowledge of the military stems mostly from those.
Soldiers have a lot more than that drilled into them. Obeying authority, pushing down your own emotions, lots of shit.
I would never be a soldier. A fighter if needed, but not joining any traditional military. It will kill your soul.
And from friends personal experiences. Your back and knees die in the service.
After having been in the military, it’s weird to hear people talk about the military who have never served.
Obeying authority? Sure, until ranking up and becoming the authority.
Pushing down emotions? More like learning to have control over our emotions, where those emotions do not control us.
Never be a soldier, but a fighter if needed?
That’s basically what I did. Most military jobs are non-combat that are trained to fight if needed but if they are needed than we’ve got way bigger problens than just fighting.
It will kill your soul? I for one certainly have regrets, but my soul feels intact.
Not everyone should join the military, it’s certainly not for everyone. Some people who thought it was all they ever wanted to do find out quickly that it’s not for them and leave. Others who thought they’d just join for 4 years for the college money and bail end up making a career of it and retire after 20 years.
I’m indifferent, I just did my 4 years and got out.
Fair points. Its just that so many soldiers seem to he traumatized by what they experience. If you didnt see much combat, of course you wont be affected by that.
I would fight for a good leader. Someone with wisdom, courage, integrity. Those people are very rare.
None of the us presidents, or any world leaders meet that bar.
Though only 10% of the military serves in direct combat roles, those who actually serve in combat can certainly be traumatized by their experience.
The silver lining of serving in the military is that we are obligated not to follow illegal orders and the path to gaining rank in the military more often than not will instill wisdom and integrity after having their courage tested.
I am thankful to have served with so many servicemembers who demonstrated their wisdom, integrity, and courage and stood up for what they knew was right even when the people we elect are unable to do the same.
Yeah I can imagine. I just hope the current administration doesnt make it legal to do horrible things.
“Female” is fine as an adjective. It’s when it’s used as a noun that it becomes a problem. But that’s not a new rule or anything.
Consider when someone says “Black people” vs “the Blacks”.
There are a lot of things unfair to vets, we can add this to the pile
That may be but if they would shorten “female soldier”, wouldn’t they refer to her as “a soldier” and not “a female”?
Yes, we heard “that is just a soldier” as well. They just didn’t like the terms lady or woman, you had to use “female”.
it’s an adjective, not a noun. but I hear it everywhere, mostly on newscasts and other broadcasts. so I just call em ‘broads’ (/s)
You can’t call chicks ‘broads’ anymore, its not civilized. (/s)
I prefer to call’em dames.
Cool it over there. I look like that but I don’t call women females. That was very unwarranted.
No matter what you say there will be complaints.
I refer to them as laaaaydeeeees
Can we stop with this for once?
Men are male, women are female. These words are interchangeable, and whoever decided one should be somehow bad or derogatory is deranged. Claim the words for what they are. Use “male” and “female” in appropriate context.
Sorry mate, not how language works. Men is a noun, male is usually an adjective, they aren’t interchangeable. Depending on the context, it can be weird/wrong to call groups of people by an adjective (exp. illegals, poors, disableds). Hearing men call women “females” sounds weird af dude, you’re proving OP’s point.
Why?
One can call a group of men “males”, and no one bats an eye. But once anyone uses “female” to refer to a woman, it’s a shitshow.
What if it’s “the perp is a 5’4” female heading west"?
No one does that
Both male and female are supposed to be used as an adjective. For example “male model” and "female model’.
The problem is using female(s) as a noun. For example “I met 5 females in class today” which is just as weird as “I met 5 males in class today”.
This meme is almost certainly a criticism of the latter and as you much more concisely put it “Use “male” and “female” in its appropriate context”.
The reason this meme is phrased like this is because many incel groups use “female(s)” as a noun in a deliberately derogatory manor and people don’t do that for men.
Also clarifying the point like this would make the meme less snappy. Though I think they could put “as a noun” at the end
People do use them as nouns. For example, in statistical/scientific context: “Among males/females…”, or outside: “I’m a male”
And I certainly saw the word “males” being commonly used, which is pretty much why I’m so baffled by the need to banish its counterpart.
Incels may call women whatever, but actively banishing the word because it was appropriated by some group of weirdos isn’t gonna help - rather, it will only deepen the flawed interpretation of a very regular and normal word, assigning context to where there was none.
I’m a proud male. Why can’t there be a proud female? This only means she is a woman, after all.
I do wonder what you’re proud of exactly, when you’re proud to be male. Proud of the genitals you were assigned at birth?
Nope, not proud as in “yay I’m so happy to be male”. Proud as in “I’m a male and there’s nothing bad about it or the wording around it, I’m happy to be who I am without shitting on anyone being different”
The language of scientific literature is not the same as the language of everyday use. There’s a reason grad programs have entire courses dedicated to scientific communication.
I am a grad student, and I often wish we wouldn’t make too much distinction. It’s just creating problems out of thin air.
Can’t help but notice you’re complaining about the post but never did what the post is complaining about.
Not here in particular, but I have been called out several times for using the word “female” in an appropriate and normal context.
As a noun to refer to humans?
Even as an adjective in scientific context.
How often has that happened to you?
At least three times that I can recall
Also does anyone find it odd how often society calls grown women girls while they stick to men when referring to men without a second thought? I still do it when I’m not paying attention.
As a man, this has legit always bugged me. We use “girls” in contexts that we would NEVER use “boys” in, even when they’re the same age.
I have to keep reminding myself of this. I’m in my late 20s and I still slip up when referring to myself sometimes.
I just view it as a quirk of the language. “Guys and girls” or “guys and gals” are paired words. Guy is a casual way to refer to men, so I think people use girl as a casual way to refer to women because it’s sort of the pair to guy. Lady feels too formal.
Fun use of “boys” has been really popular for quite some time. Me and the boys. Boys will be boys.
‘Guys’ even tho the singular is used to mean a man, is really an a-gendered plural
Those are specific phrases but yeah I getcha. And you could argue, like some other replies said, sometimes “boys” is used in casual ways, “girls” is used as an equivalent to “guys”, it can mean “gals” too. Fair points but I do believe people have some kind of aversion to “woman/women” and won’t ever use if in a fun context. it’s just an uptight sounding word for some reason.
Hell, a business or industry run primarily by men in their fifties and older can be referred to as “a boys club.”
I hear almost daily how the older secretary and HR women call the workers “boys”, I think it’s quite endearing but tbh it doesn’t have the same history of belittling really.
Stereotypically, women always strive to look as young as possible, so calling one a girl can be seen as a compliment. While men, stereotypically strive to appear mature, hence calling one a boy can be considered an insult.
I don’t disagree with you that society does think that way, but I disagree with the sentiment so much.
I’m 33 and afab. I accepted being called a “girl” until I was about 23 (probably not a coincidence that that was the age at which I graduated college), but it started chafing at like 16, even though I didn’t have a good alternative at the time (because I agree that “female” as a noun feels gross). If someone called me a girl now I would correct them without hesitation in basically every scenario outside of a eulogy or wedding speech.
I really wish there was a better option. I don’t really like “woman,” but it’s better than gal, lady, dudette, chick, or girl imo. I’m perfectly fine with guy or dude, especially in plural, but I’m probably an egg, so that colors my perspective for the singular use a little.
I honestly don’t see this changing any time soon because there are biological incentives behind both stereotypes. And, anecdotally, my gf (40+) will pout if in some context I refer to her as a woman, and be like “noooo, I’m a girl… :(”. Semi-jokingly, of course, but only semi.
Same as the other reply, I don’t disagree. Do I think there’s mal intent? Nah. But I’m sure this has an unconscious effect on how we perceive women. Besides lots of women look young without even trying, I think with the improvement of medicine and public health, people in general are just looking younger nowadays so we should nip this habit in the butt.
I recently watched The Orville, and immediately think of the Moclans and their Ultra-Misogyny
Clyden!!!
Gotta love how “”””radfems”””” love the term “adult human female” too.
Trans women are adult human females.
Obviously the exclusionary group is going to exclude the people they don’t like with their slogans though. Trans exclusionary radical feminists don’t believe trans women are women. The “adult human female” shit across from them “defining woman” or something to that effect.
I know, but I used to really piss off transphobes with that line. At least one immediately quote retweeted me, while calling me out as an “extreme misogynist” (she was defending Matt Walsh of all people, saying he’s just practicing his “right to religion”) just before blocking me.
Funny how trans people never have religious rights in these discussions. Or how they refer to “trans ideology” rather than trans religious or philosophical beliefs. If I were to opine on my beliefs of the soul/spirit, I would say I was created with a female spirit in a male body. If I have any religious belief, then it is a religious worldview where such a thing is possible. Yet trans people never seem to have their religious rights acknowledged.
It’s the result of the far-right gaslighting people with the fear of communism, and how anti-religion (not letting christofascist to destroy our democracies) = holodomor and work camps.
True. It’s just a slogan in the same way that “being White is all right” is or “All Lives Matter” is. It’s not supposed to mean what it means. It’s a code.
Like - once, 4chan (/pol/ and /b/ primarily, early mid 2010s) that it would be funny to make drinking milk a racist thing. It was explicitly discussed how this would make people upset about people drinking milk, and how this would be funny. The alt right weirdos in on the joke get the joke, leftists are befuddled and outraged, the stupid conservative weirdos are laughing at the dumb liberals and their cancel culture getting worked up about milk. Same thing with that pinched thumb and index finger “okay” symbol. 14 and 88 have lost their plausible deniability in most spaces at least.
Very similarly, the idea of MAPS was a /pol/ operation that was carried out to delegitimize the LGBT movement. The idea of people identifying with a sexual orientation based on being exclusively attracted to children, to the point of creating a pride flag, was mostly a /pol/ op. This is not to say that there aren’t creeps who did actually identify as such as a consequence of this movement, but it wasn’t a natural movement of creeps.
Language games. The limits of my language are the limits of my world. They mean something entirely different even in just human there.
Iv said it so much ironically that its now part of my vocabulary
Honest question from a non native: what is wrong with the term female?
And what word could you use for the sex girls and women are part of where people wouldn’t imagine you look like a space neolib?
Female is still an acceptable term in some context: eg, when referring to the social group on a societal level, female can be fine, also for identifying someone’s genetic/biological sex as “female” for medical/official contexts, that’s still okay in most cases.
Where it’s not okay is to use it on an individual level or to refer to a small group of ladies. The term is seem as cold, clinical, and in some cases, dehumanizing. It comes off as boiling down a person to their function in reproduction and nothing more. “You are the female and you carry children.” Kind of thing. Like women are some kind of bakery for your crotch goblins, and not people worthy of respect.
But something like “the female population of the country” is fairly okay, since you’re referring to the entirely of the people who identify as female, not an individual or small group of individuals.
At least, that’s my take. I’m just some guy. If any women want to correct me, I defer to your judgement and opinion, and happily retract any contradictory statements I may have made. I am always happy to be corrected.
Okay I understand.
So “books with female protagonists” would be okay (because large group referenced) “Bus with female passengers” would be considered rude, because small group referenced, you would rather say “Bus with women and girls as passengers” ?
More or Less. I would think of it more as a third person direct versus indirect. Third person direct being: referring to a specific set of people, eg, they’re in the room with you, where calling them females would be rude… Third person indirect, where you’re mentioning the concept of that group of people while not citing a specific or present subset of that group, would be rude.
You’ve made some good examples. Overall I think you understand the concept I was trying to get across.
Short answer: It’s a turn of phrase the Incel movement popularized as a dehumanizing dogwhistle.
Long answer: In current American English, “Female” and “Females” are highly formal terms and really are only commonly used in situations like law and academic discourse (this is true of “male” and “males” as well, though there’s much less cultural baggage associated with those terms). People who use them in casual conversation instead of the much more common “Women” (or the diminutive, “Girls”) tend to be the kind of person that uses formal language to emphasize their own intellectual superiority over the common masses, and in particular all the women who won’t have sex with them. In fact and almost invariably, this is presented in the form of explanations about why nobody wants to have sex with them, and the cultural forces that are causing it, and why deep down it’s the women’s fault they can’t get a date, and it just all goes downhill from there.
edit: clarity
Non-native as well but for me, “female” is an adjective and only used as a noun in technical setting. If used in regular conversation setting, it’s condescending and dehumanizing.
Good:
- There are fifteen females in the survey.
- The female is more aggressive, typical of hyenas.
- You bought the wrong USB cable, this one is a female.
Bad:
- This female is not very good at her job.
- You females need to tone it down.
Also interesting because in German progressive/queer feminist groups use the term
“Weiblich gelesen” (literal: read female, meaning: assumed to be female)
If we want to refer to someone who looks like a women by conservative standards but about whom we don’t know if they actually identify as a women.
“Weib” (degrading term for “women/wife” derived from the word “weiblich” (female)) on the other hand is considered very rude and only used by conservative/sexist people.
Just find it interesting which words are differently connotated in which language.
I’ll be real here: no one irl cares, we’re so careless with our language people understand what you mean more by vibes than vocabulary. I’ve not heard a single person take umbrage with female outside of the internet.
haha yeah imagine being ugly lol
Ugly? With those lobes?
Most handsome capitalist I know
No stupid questions time: This kind of lurks in the back of my mind and I sometimes find myself hesitating to use the term “female” to refer to female figures in any context. I don’t have to do that, right? Like, would “woman lawyer” be better than “female lawyer” in contexts where specifying gender might be relevant? I would conversely prefer the term “male lawyer” in the same context and “man lawyer” sounds just as odd to me as “woman lawyer”. “Lawyer who is a woman” is a little verbose, too. Am I overthinking this?
Yes you’re over thinking this. A woman lawyer is just a lawyer. Same how a male lawyer is just a lawyer. Unless the gender of the person is important, leave it out of their job title. Use the word actor to describe both men and women who act. Flight attendant for men and women, or receptionist, or any other word. The vast majority of time you can leave their gender out of the description and it’s fine.
Sorry but “woman” is not an adjective and its use that way is grating. You wouldn’t say “man teacher” and it sounds wrong. So does “woman lawyer” or “woman voter.”
The neckbeard/incel thing is using “female” when “woman” would be acceptable and more common, like “look at these females” or something. It doesn’t mean we have to abolish the word “female” entirely from the lexicon.
Yeah, that seems to align nicely with the instincts I outlined in my comment. No need to apologize. Thanks!
I work in statistics and we never use girl of woman, only female. The line is vastly different in age and meaning depending on culture, religion, law, or heritage. Even in western societ, 13, 16, 18, and 21 are all valid before tipping to 40, 50, 60, 65, 68, and 70 where the term can be prefixed with some form of adjective.
It’s old-fashioned. Just say female and every culture/society understands you without confusion or insult. Save you embarassing/insulting people while travelling too.
My personal rule is female adjective is okay, female noun is not.
From what I googled, it’s especially bad when you pair “man” and “female” together, which makes sense to me.
Just don’t use male or female as nouns to refer to humans. That simple. If you’re talking about animals it doesn’t matter.
If you’re talking about animals it doesn’t matter.
Not even that it doesn’t matter, it’s almost entirely the point. The reason why using ‘females’ as a noun to refer to women is dehumanizing is because it’s a noun we use for animals.
My personal take is to just use lawyer, when gender is irrelevant. This may get your audience confused when using “she” in the next sentence. But it could help weaken the stereotypes about genders if we did this more often IMHO.
If needed “female lawyer” or “lawyer who is a woman” are good otherwise.I know, use the worst of all options, “lawyeress.” /s
When we’re driving, my wife often acts as a navigatrix
Waiter = Waitress
Lawyer = LawyressLawyer femoid 😒
lawyeoid 😏
Best be safe and call them “girl lawyer”
They’re just called lawyers, unless they’re lawyering with their genitals and their sex is somehow relevant.
“70% of lawyers suffer discrimination in the workplace but only 30% of lawyers face discrimination.”
There are obviously still contacts where the distinction is important.
Such as discussing discrimination, statistics, etc
Maybe from an equity perspective, but not from a lawyer perspective. So you’d probably say “we need more women in law”.
Because the topic is women. If the topic was lawyering, then sex won’t come up.
Immediate scenario that came to mind here is
The client demanded any other public defender, as long as they weren’t black or female.
“single female lawyer fighting for justice and also being single,”
That’s a deep reference. Very nice.
I’m a nostalgia sniper today
