cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/27899425
Just some North Korea shit, nothing to see here. Move along.
Just some North Korea shit, nothing to see here. Move along.
You have been banned from Lemmy․ml
Federation be like let a thousand flowers bloom
Doesn’t have to be this way though, wide defederation is the answer for toxic propaganda spreading instances
Sometimes, you just need to kick out the weeds
Hashtag just dictator things
So a perfect time for a military coup? 🤞
In case you haven’t figured it out yet, the military is fine with trump.
Please, I have only so little hope left
As much as we would love to believe the officer’s oath (and the enlisted oath, diluted as it is by the president clause) carries water and protects us, the historical precedent of militaries says troops are loyal to their paychecks and, to a somewhat lesser extent, benefits. As long as the soldiers continue to be financially compensated, they won’t rebel and will actively work against rebellions. When they stop being compensated, they’ll become passive and will step aside for a rebellion. Some may even defect and join the rebellion, but only if they think its success will benefit them. Sorry to be cynical, but without a strong charismatic and revered general or admiral to follow, troops will never self-activate to “defend their oath.”
Look up the fall of Samuel Doe in Liberia or the Vodka rebellion leading up to Kerensky’s coup in Russia. The military is ever just hired goons. If the military were truly a circuit breaker against illegal autocracy, then they’d be doing exercises and drills to train for the day they’d have to “defend the constitution” from a domestic threat. To my knowledge, no such “uncoup the coup” drill has ever been conducted.
Didn’t they all just see their retirements get obliterated before even becoming vets?
Yeah, he just gutted the VA along with everything else.
How so? As far as I know, the 20-year pension plan is still in place. And yeah, the TSP equity funds were affected, but you’d be surprised how ignorant and apathetic a huge portion of military members are about the TSP and completely unaware of vehicles like the Roth IRA. Plus, that’s all future money, in some case far future. Much less personal impact, as it’s easier to think only about the present. That’s why many aren’t getting all worked up about loss of earned benefits that will only matter years from now once they’ve been discharged. Plus, many Jr enlisted don’t have enough discretionary income to even contribute to a TSP on a meaningful level.
To my knowledge, no such “uncoup the coup” drill has ever been conducted.
Why would it be expected that you would have knowledge of such a thing?
I’d wager my odds of knowing are better than that of the average person, but it’s true, lack of knowledge does not represent lack of existence. It would be nice if some special units somewhere train exactly for that scenario.
I don’t think that’s an accurate statement. Maybe most of the enlisted people are, but a very large percentage of the officers hate him. He is their commanding officer, and they openly insult him. They ridicule him constantly and talk about how terrible his decisions are. They joke about how stupid the SecDef’s plans are. And they do all this in front of their superior officers.
The officers make an oath about defending the constitution, but they also hold very strongly to their duty to protect the people they command. Trump puts those people in jeopardy for no damn reason, so many hate him for that.
Literally the worst case scenario, idk why people want that.
They hope someone will else do it for them.
Oh, yeah? Me and what army?
The one out last weekend, and in the weeks to come, protesting. The people the government derives it’s power from the consent of. If all else fails, all other means are exhausted, and the time comes, you hope the military is on your side but you do NOT hope the military takes initiative to resolve the problem because my guy the interests of the military are not the interests of the citizenry and I would prefer not to live under a military dictatorship thank you very much.
The people the government derives it’s power from the consent of
Do a headcount of which citizens are on which side. Rationality and empathy exist in bubbles, not a sea. Most of the population is really just that plain dumb and/or sadistic and apparently has grown in numbers and magnitude since last time. The side you’re rooting for also will almost always pull their punches whereas the other side simply doesn’t. Give me a deus ex machina fairy tale dream to cling onto because those in power with the big guns and tanks and bombs lust for hurting people and they’ve got the majority of the masses tricked into happily getting themselves and others trampled upon.
If you’ve already given up idk what to tell you. A military dictatorship is not what you want.
I want the military to maliciously comply with this.
One Army solder marches by
One mile later one Marine marches by
One mile later a lone Navy sailor marches by
One mile later one USAF pilot marches by
One mile later a member of the USCG marches by.
I want them all armed to the teeth by the thousands, then halt, turn, aim, and fire.
Why do people think the military isn’t on his side?? He is the commander in chief lol
I recently attended a lecture by retired Admiral James Stavridis, who among other things was the NATO supreme allied commander for 4 years. He explained how every soldier swears an oath to the US Constitution, and in many cases more than just once. Each time an officer is promoted they swear that oath again, so by the time you make something like admiral you’ve likely sworn that oath around ten times, and administered it countless times to others.
Even when Trump fired those members of the Joint Chiefs, those who replaced them will renew that oath if they receive promotions to fill that role. Stavridis also said that the JAG officers who were recently fired would be replaced through military promotions, triggering even more oaths.
While the military may indeed humor Trump with a parade, I’m not worried they would blindly obey an illegal order. If Trump ordered them to deploy across the US, to invade Greenland, etc. I think you would see the military leadership act in a way nobody in modern times has ever seen. I’m confident they would honor their oaths and not violate the law.
I mean isn’t the military flying the no due process death camp flights out sometimes at least? Is “to the death camp” a legal order? Seems like a slippery slope from there.
I believe the flights to El Salvador were private charters, not military. The earlier flights to Guantanamo would have been military, but even that isn’t clearly & blatantly illegal. Trump claimed legal authority based on an existing legal precedent (I forget which), and since military pilots are not lawyers they followed those orders. The flights stopped in part because of all the legal challenges in court (but also due to costs and other legal issues).
If anything, when ordered to fly these people to Guantanamo, the military probably turned to their JAG officers, who are lawyers, to ensure they weren’t illegal. They likely would have said the flights should go until the courts ruled on the matter.
Yeah, good thing oaths are magically self-enforcing and impossible to break. Otherwise we’d be fucked.
You seem to know a lot more about this than me but I struggle share your confidence.
Everything I know about military service I have learned from popular media, but it seems like “following orders” is a foundational principle. If orders contravene an oath you made to the constitution that would present a conundrum, but I suspect that “following orders” will always win. That’s the whole idea of an “order”, you’re not supposed to think about it and figure out whether or not you want to follow such a directive, and surely this is beaten in to servicemen and women every day ?
Media is not a good place to learn about military life. If you are in the States, you might have a local VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars). The old guys in there will likely talk your ear off about their experiences, just don’t press for details about specific combat experience unless they broach the subject.
If you want to learn more about the military and their oath, from popular media sources, NCIS is the show to watch. It’s relatively accurate in it’s display of service life, and they cite the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) in what seems like every episode. Now that is the real bread and butter of a military members legal guidance. Every military member is keenly aware of that book, especially when deploying.
Source: A military veteran and friend of multiple military peeps from multiple branches, backgrounds, and countries. The depiction of mindless drones is far from accurate. They exist, just like you have shitty people at any job, but as someone else pointed out above here, the higher up the branch you go, the more left-leaning the soldier is. That’s why tRump had to appoint a complete dunce to DoD, and not someone with military background and scruples. You know that if tRump could get military support from upper command that he wouldn’t hesitate to post soldiers around him for every presser. He is a weak-man’s idea of a strong-man.
The gist of it is, the military defends the US constitution, not the president whims. Obviously, some may not see it that way, but if the general army changed direction each time the president changed, it would cause some problems.
Canada might crack the military into the faithful to the constitution vrs the loyal to maga.
Panama or Greenland I figure they would try to minimize loss of life but they would just do it. Blowing up your career for a symbolic gesture or risking civil war in a mass revolt wouldn’t be worth it.
(Some might give up their careers, the ones with high integrity, maybe a lot of command. But they would be replaced with loyalists)
If the court says the presidents whims are constitutional then what happens?
Greenland is hard. They’d likely do it. It’s a legal order under the War Powers Act. They would probably do it in a completely different way than going full explodey like they did with Iraq, but it would happen.
Now they could drag their feet, super telegraphing their moves, effectively giving Congress time to use the WPA to shut it down. But it’s not guaranteed by any means.
Canada would see mass desertions though. And Mexico or Panama are actually the most likely targets. The military would invade those places without a second thought.
They’re under oath to serve the republic, not some hateful, treasonous muppet.
Good thing oaths are things that people never bend or break.
Because they aren’t robots.
Being elected “commander in chief” is not a magic spell that makes the military suddenly love someone. President is a more temporary and unstable position than high ranked military people.
There are a ton who are not. Hegseth fired the black General and woman leaders. Many service members are black or female and saw this. They see brown people getting rounded up, many in the military are Latino. And apart from that, people are 50% non-MAGA anyway.
50% of the general population. I’d be curious to see polling of just the military, both of officers and enlisted. I’d imagine they skew higher in his favour.
Higher in his favor than the general population? Probably. More than 50%? I doubt it.
But he is purging the leadership. If he purges it enough he will erode the effectiveness of the whole force. Which might be for the best when he invaded Greenland, Panama, and Canada.
Not sure. There’s a full blown white male military guy I know through work. He’s an openly hateful and racist person. Like not even pretending he isn’t. He still is pissed at Trump over being incompetent and disrespectful to soldiers.
The higher up the chain you go, the more left it becomes. Never 100% or anything, but it’s there.
And a flyover with a crop duster.
OA1K is a crop duster
…don’t forget
starfleetspace force…deleted by creator
That’s a useless show of disrespect. People we need in place would be fired for taking over one news cycle. Worse it could kick a purge of officers into high gear by giving ammunition to conservatives that the military has “gone rogue”.
It’s all we can afford now that elon made everything so efficient
Don’t forget Space Force!
Hey, we gave him a 5 mile parade when he only asked for a 4 mile one!
Over deliver, just like the administration. Hell could be 6 if we throw in the Salvation Army.
Wild.
Expected. This ain’t the first time he’s tried this.
That doesn’t make it not wild though, imho.
what a perfect opportunity to establish a military coup and take back control of our government from fascists.
opportunities don’t get much better than this folks.
I don’t have the statistics, but generally, the Police and the Military are turned toward far right. I’m pretty sure most of them voted for Trump and are happy with everything that’s going one. And the financing of both haven’t decreased
In Turkey, the military seized control on a few occasions to protect the secularism of the state from religious whackos. It should have done the same to Erdogan, but he got his lackeys into place to prevent it.
Let’s be sure the best parade balloon ever created is part of it.
Omg please bring this back 🤣 it was such an incredible troll move, and it very obviously got under his skin
I saw a couple people carrying smaller versions of it at the Handsoff event. 😂
You can buy balloon versions online if you’re looking for one.
What a man baby.
Trump crafted the idea for a military parade after witnessing a lavish Bastille Day celebration in Paris in 2017. Top US generals and officials were less thrilled about the idea. At one White House meeting, when Trump addressed his idea with Air Force Gen. Paul Selva, then the second-highest-ranking general as vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Selva suggested the idea was reminiscent of something often seen in dictatorships. When Trump asked Selva what he thought of the parade, Selva said he grew up in Portugal, which “was a dictatorship — and parades were about showing the people who had the guns.” “And in this country, we don’t do that,” Selva said. “It’s not who we are.” Trump then asked Selva whether or not he liked the idea, to which he responded: “No.” He added, “It’s what dictators do.”
Spain, under Franco had a yearly massive parade. When Democracy was reinstated, the tradition continued, but instead of celebrating the victory of the nationalists in the civil war, it became a celebration of the armed forces. It’s still held, but it has steadily been downsized, to a mainly ceremonial and testimonial level.
Trump doesn’t give a shit about anyone but him. They just cut $55M intended to fund training for rural teachers (because who wants educated educators?) and now he wants to spend more than that on a mile long military parade celebrating his birthday. And it’s not even a milestone birthday, just a birthday.
From the article, Trump wanted to do something similar but, presumably smaller, in his first term but backed off after the price tag came to $92M. He instead opted for an event that ONLY cost $13M. How much do you think this one will cost? What will get cut to fund it?
Fucking narcissistic traitor… He’ll probably figure out how to grift a few tens of millions from this by selling tickets, too.
four-mile-long*
He won’t attend a veteran funeral in favor of going golfing, but he wants a military parade for his birthday.
While a man he admits is innocent continues to sit in a prison in El Salvador
Unless he’s already dead. Which is probably, given the resistance of the Trumpist regime to getting him back.
Is there a way to report things to DOGE? This seems like an easy cut.
Oh he’ll just sell corporate sponsorships for his little man-child parade.
did he also order spectators to cry of happiness?
Don’t show up, even to protest. He’ll just say everyone showed up for him. Let him have his audience-less parade like a retarded North Korean despot.
how about a nearby protest with the goal of gathering more people than the parade itself? that would piss him off
Would a protest that involves protesters blocking the parade from moving result in an american tiananmen square?
why would i want to stop Trump of making a fool of himself towards the civilized world? when we can troll him on the issue he cares the more about, after grifting: crowd sizes
An 8 mile nearby protest.
Eminem wakes from a dead sleep covered in sweat
“It’s about to go down!”
palms are sweaty
mum’s spaghetti
Let that man be a grandpa for like 5 mins…
We’ve got one shot, one opportunity
An 8 mile protest in the way.
This is the correct response.
ETA: and I strongly suspect this will happen somehow. So, his birthday is June 14th, so those who can should start making plans to be in DC around then (actual day of parade may be different, so don’t lock in specific dates until there’s more info).
Meanwhile, get ready for your local May 1st protests. (More locations will be certainly be added to that map as the day gets closer).
And until then, there are lots more opportunities to get out and protest.
How protesty!
Tangent!
Hey are you able to use their map on mobile without issue? It’s the worst I’ve used in years. It might treat one finger like two, or none at all. Too tired to email them right now but certainly whack on the latest iOS on a new phone.
Yeah, zooming and planning around works fine for me on android.
A protest with signs that point out how much trump hates the military would be good.
The “Real America” protest
Maybe protest and block the parade. This parade feels like bait to start riots. They want riots.
Better to protest in peace and ignore the parade. Just drawing a larger crowd and some good media attention will troll him enough. Concentrate on signs showing ways the money could have been used for good.
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We should throw our own parade someplace else. Maybe even call it the Obama parade.
What if everyone lined the streets and silently faced the other direction?
That’d be OK if they all simultaneously gave him the brown eye.
