I keep seeing posts mentioning this phenomenon more and more often.
For instance:
‘Andrew Tate phenomena’ surges in schools - with boys refusing to talk to female teacher
Like, why? Why now? Why even? I really wish I had a time machine where I could go to the future and ask them what the general reasons were for this social development. But I feel like I’m looking for the specific thorn on a cactus that popped my balloon.
One teacher said she’d had 10-year-old boys “refuse to speak to [her]…because [she is] a woman”
Does this come from Tate? This could also be a child from a family with partiarchal values. Tate is not the only source of influence. But one incident shouldn’t be part of an article because it is an exception.
What is the general reason for social development? The elite is creating the cirucumstances for change. Why? Divide and conquer.
On an individual level, masculinity makes sense because going to the gym and being confident makes life much more simple than trying to feel compassion with everybody. For boys, masculinity is the common denominator among all cultures. So in a multicultural society, that’s what is going to be established as the fused culture of the next generation.
Girls have the same problems, but their answer, being pretty and doing makeup, doesn’t cause trouble and is thus ignored.
To change this, new forms of education must be developed because math and geography don’t teach the necessary skills to deal with this complex world.
The right wing has easy answers for complex problems, so it’s easier for them to recruit frustrated, average people.
And the left is often paralyzed by the “complexity” of a solution and offers little no refuge for those in need. Sadly making those half baked ignorant simple solutions the only thing offered.
And the left is often paralyzed by the “complexity” of a solution and offers little no refuge for those in need
Always, because they’re not stupid, if they were, they’d be Conservatives … and the answer to complex problems are not simple. That can’t change.
Alas, with Tate etal,
It’s only because of their stupidity that they’re able to be so sure of themselves.” - Franz Kafka
"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. . - John Stuart Mill
You have missed the point entirely. It’s not that complex problems can be solved by “one simple trick that conservatives hate.” It’s that the complexity of the problem often prevents the left from even taking the first step to any solution.
Solving complex problems often requires multiple steps towards to mitigation. But, one needs to take that first step. And there needs to be dirt under those fingernails at the end of the day as a reminder of the work actually done.
Another possible reason may be online dating.
Most people use online dating. Average looking men have very low chances to get a match because of : The much lower number of women on these platforms compared to men; which leads to the logical consequence of men lowering standards to increase their chances of getting a match; which of course leads to women being more selective causing a feedback loop that compounds on itself. So only the highly attractive men get a lot of likes and this leads to them being promiscuous which makes women think all men are assholes. And because finding a date is easy for women it’s also very easy to ghost men for the smallest things.
And this whole system is also propped up by the Match group which owns all major dating apps in order to squeeze out as much as they can out of desperate people, basically monetizing loneliness.
When you swipe and swipe for months and only get one date and get ghosted right after, you start to devalue yourself, what other explanation can there be except that as a man you are horrible. And you spiral into depression and blame yourself (when in fact the whole system is wrong and is bad for both men and women).
Then suddenly comes a macho man who tells you that women are the problem, that it’s not you (and that they also have courses to sell that will make you finally get women), of course you’re gonna believe him, finally a way out of depression. A wrong way, a shitty way, but a way nonetheless.
These people are hurt and are acting out in the wrong way, leading to more hurting. And people like Andrew Tate are getting rich off of it.
PS: A long time ago OkCupid had you answering between 20 and a few hundreds of questions, plus answers you’d expect from your potential partner, plus how important that question is for you; and then it would show you a list of matched in order of compatibility. It was amazing. (but it got bought out by Match and turned into a tinder clone).
Honestly, I think because it’s comfortable. Andrew Tate and the like say that there is nothing wrong with you and it’s society/women’s fault. It doesn’t challenge anything, not even the harmful standards for men (ex: High value = certain look/body, status, income, etc.). Dating has gotten harder for men. Women have a lot more options and choices, and I don’t just mean in which man to marry, but even if they will marry at all. That means men have to offer more than just being the provider, as many women also have to work. And I don’t think we set men up to be good partners. Providers? Sure. But to be caring, empathetic, loving and loved members of society? I don’t think so.
I think women need to be taken out of the equation all together when it comes to the male lonilness epidemic because that seems to cause the spiral. If it was focused on how men could foster good relationships, in general, I think it would be better. Focus on how to join/find/form social clubs, make it okay to talk to the boys about how you’re feeling, make it okay for them to need help. A lot of articles seems to boil down to more men are single, but I think it should be more of why don’t men have friends? If men are single, that means there are single women out there as well, but they don’t inspire these posts because women are allowed to foster platonic, deep relationships and we kind of tell me you either get a spouse for that or you just have to deal with it.
The Innuendo Studios series’ on YouTube Alt-Right Playbook and Why Are You So Angry especially illustrate this well and I highly recommend watching. It’s very similar to what happened during gamergate. A lot of men who are frustrated are misled by these reactionary campaigns. Just like everyone else, they face the struggles of patriarchy, toxic masculinity, capitalism, etc. But Andrew Tate tells them it’s not their fault, and reassures their insecurities that they’re good guys, and tells them that the problem is women.
While simultaneously saying casual sex with women means you’re a gay dude.
Edit: love how there are Tate fanboys on Lemmy! Lol, y’all are so pathetic it’s funny. YourBoosMeanNothing.gif
Lack of education (and a university degree changes nothing) which ends in a lack of critical thinking. The causes are deeper than “it’s the economy”, “they are delusional”, “social media”, even if social media is bad for critical thinking. You still have to educate yourself in many fields to develop your cognitive capabilities, and this from a young age.
Going outside, playing with a stick and a rock, develops your brain. You’re the actor of your life. A smartphone screen puts the kid in a passive state.
But it would be too easy to blame just this. It’s more than one factor. This politics of doom scrolling serves an economical purpose. The economy is over wellbeing. More and more norms are put on the human being, alienating them.
Masculinism is a simple theory, solution, to a more complex issue. Humans like these simple answers.
We have to address these multiple dots connected to each other’s. It’s not just masculinity, it’s the society in which we want to live.
Who else are they going to turn to? It’s rare for boys and young men to have positive male role models.
- what they view as positive role models. (Even if they aren’t)
We live in online world that normalises abusing women gamers on Twitch, DM-ing women in order to hit on them and/or attack them on Insta or whatever, that considers sites like 4chan legitimate humour and where a web search for something like a gym membership can bombard you with scum like Tate.
Add to that the hit that people’s socialisation skills took during lockdown, governments around the Westernised world normalising hate and violence as legitimate ways to get what you want and then dangle in front of them the fictional lives influencers flaunt on Instagram, TikTok etc and tell them they too could have that life if they do this that and the other oh and by the way, its totally fine to abuse women to prove your masculinity because you, as a man, are owed sex by women.
All these reasons like ‘men are lonely’, ‘gender roles are different’ - yeah they play a part but lets not pretend this shit hasn’t been coming for a long time and men being sad they have less role models is no excuse for the rationalisation of violent hate that’s on display.
I’m going to disagree with a few things here.
I don’t really see why people continue to blame the lockdown for why it has impacted socializing. There has been socially inept people before a pandemic took over so I really can’t see how this in anyway has had a strict and exclusive cause. Men in general, for years and years, have always had an awkward approach when it comes to females and it has only worsened.
I wouldn’t just put the magnifying glass on 4chan when Reddit and Kiwi Farms are just as bad if not worse.
The one key thing also to add is that, there had been fictional and even non-fictional mediums where women were seen as superior over and than that of men. It didn’t really help matters and only just fueled the opposition to behave, think and act the way men do today.
“I don’t really see why people continue to blame the lockdown for why it has impacted socializing”
I’m not blaming just the lockdown but it certainly played a part. For a lot of people who are now legal adults it happened at a formative stage of their social development.
“I wouldn’t just put the magnifying glass on 4chan when Reddit and Kiwi Farms are just as bad if not worse.”
True.
You’re not wrong BUT this is only one side of the issue. Patriarchal norms undercut men’s ability to form meaningful relationships and capitalism is making us wage slaves. The behaviors you’re pointing to are symptoms of a larger problem.
And you’re not wrong either - they’re still shit excuses for treating people like sexual commodities and thinking its OK to beat/rape/kill them if they don’t give you sex. At some level personal responsibility kicks in.
Where? Where does accountability kick in? We’re all walking hypocrites indoctrinated by a capitalist and patriarchal system.
I really wish I had a time machine where I could go to the future and ask them what the general reasons were for this social development.
I think I had this exact thought yesterday. In the past, there’s been hints that appear within just a few months if you’re looking.
Most of the explanations posted aren’t very convincing. If it’s just a daddy figure or toxic masculinity or just personal affirmation that’s not new and should have applied all along. The YouTube algorithm could be part of it, but then you just get a question about why the YouTube algorithm was pushing that.
A random theory, just based on something I read recently: looksmaxxing is becoming a big thing, which is itself a sign of equality in that the burden for being attractive is now going both ways. Paradoxically, the new cohort of men with body image issues is very vulnerable to radicalisation by the manosphere.
It’d be kind of surprising if that was the whole thing, though…
That’s what happen when identity politics mark a group as less important and the enemy.
It happens when right wing do identity politics an the marginalized minorities group together against it.
Left wing for some reason decided to use exactly the same strategy as the right wing and took identity politics as a way to do politics and they are having exactly the same result. The “marginalized” identity turned against them.
Surprised Pikachu face.
Yep…
Because they are insecure and he makes them feel valued. It’s as simple as that. He tells them they’re worth more than the next brown person or female person because they are a man.
The USA had expansion as an escape valve for most of its existence. Now that’s gone. There’s no future. Our politicians don’t talk about anything great ahead anymore. The rest of our existence will be capitalism crushing people. Hence, despair and cynicism.
The algorithm pushes them that direction.
On YouTube I’m constantly one video away from “owning the woke libs” content because I turned my view history off.
Yo the second I turned off personalized ads I got so many ads for erectile dysfunction medication. It felt like they were trying to embarrass me into turning personalized ads back on.
That’s both funny and very insulting.
It hasn’t stopped and I’m wearing down.
Social media algos are creating this. This is why a lot of 20-38 year old young boys are turning to conservatism. This is how the rich wealthy elites are overthrowing the last few remaining democries. UK is currently their main target. They were successful with Germany and they are now expading. In 3-6 years, the world will have completely shifted to the right.
This is why a lot of 20-38 year old young boys are turning to conservatism.
As far as I know, there’s only been a slight shift toward conservatism among young men. For the most part, their political views haven’t changed all that much - it’s actually women who have shifted much more noticeably to the left and thus widening the gap between them.
It differs by Western country at least as well. Australian Gen Z men for instance are shifting left, just not as quickly as women.
To be honest, the whole narrative about Gen Z is overly focused on men, and the seismic shift of Gen Z women to the left should not be ignored. But belittling and undermining the views of young women is certainly not a new thing.
From around 2022 until just recently YouTube Shorts was heavily pushing Tate on me (an almost 50 year old man).
No matter how many times I disliked and/or blocked the poster, the YouTube algorithm just kept throwing more Tate at me. I don’t know what I did to make YouTube think I’d be interested in that clown.
On the plus side, it made me a lot more aware of what’s going on, hence my efforts to get Google out of my life. I can spot someone trying to manipulate me, but I have young sons who might not.
Thanks for protecting your sons from that shit
This needs much more attention. I had the same impression, especially also about Tate. Why can google push topics without the general public feeling the threat for democracy? Who decides which topics are pushed and what is their agenda?
Google and every other tech company say they keep their algorithms secret for commercial purposes, but that’s a bit convenient isn’t it? I certainly don’t trust any capitalist to be responsible with that much unchecked power.
