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Screenshot of a Tumblr post by indigosfindings:
imagine if someone just like started addressing you as Dipshit, like youre just talking about your day & they say “no way Dipshit, that’s crazy.” and then maybe you say to them that you would prefer not to be addressed as Dipshit & their response is “well in my major metropolitan area ‘Dipshit’ is not considered an insult. im not saying i think youre stupid when i call you Dipshit, i call my mom dipshit all the time” so you say Thats cool but please dont call Me that. and then they just repeat that it’s something they say daily, they call all of their best friends & lovers dipshits & are called dipshit in return. “my grandma calls me dipshit at the dinner table, it doesnt mean anything.” so you say Yes i understand that your friends & grandma arent bothered by being called Dipshit but i am, & i would prefer if you didnt address me as that. and they say “it’s literally not possible for me to stop calling you dipshit, and it’s not reasonable for you to ask me to, dipshit.” anyway this post is about nothing in particular
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I thought this was a post about the overuse of “dude”
This is obviously about Australians calling their mates “cunts”.
one more report and I’m locking this whole mf thread
I understand this is a controversial topic but y’all need to behave your damn selves
The basics are:
- This is fundamentally a discussion about hurtful language, including slurs. I don’t mind them being mentioned / referenced (in fact I would argue it’s important to talk about them), but I’m not going to tolerate them being directed at people. This is y’alls final warning on that. I’ve removed some comments already but after this I’m just going to start handing out bans.
- I know there’s alternate interfaces for Lemmy, but on the basic version I’m familiar with, under each comment there is a button on the left end of the bar of buttons with three dots and a little arrow indicating additional options. If you press it, you will find that you have the option to “block” other users. This function will make it so that you no longer have to see anything they post or interact with them. This is a fantastic feature that I highly recommend utilizing in the event that someone says something you find upsetting that does not break the rules of this comm or instance.
I’m personally kind of reminded of how “faggot” and “dyke” are being “taken back” and used jokingly/sarcastically, but I still get really uncomfortable if someone uses them with me. They’ll say “oh I don’t mean it offensively!” But it’s not really up to you to decide what’s offending another person or not.
I once had someone tell me very very earnestly that the word Queer - a word I literally marched under in protest - was the worst most horrible slur ever, then turn around and use fruit.
Baby comm members need naptime methinks
I grew up with those words being common and I hope they don’t come back in any form. They’re very damaging even to straight males. But I’m sure as long as there’s a counter culture they won’t go away.
Case in point, I’ve been getting really into Latin dance, taking group classes, taking private classes, etc. the people that I see dance that look amazing are having a lot of fun with the dance and the music, the body movements, everything. When I try to move a certain way with my hips there’s this fucking voice in my head that’s snickering saying “gay” and if I can get out of my own fucking head and just feel the music, feel myself and connect with who I’m dancing with I have a great time and I get a lot of compliments. I hate that even when I know it’s wrong and even completely illogical the fear of being perceived as feminine or weak is something that I have to struggle with on a personal level.
I’ve been transitioning for 10 years and these thoughts still haunt me sometimes 🙃
That’s how I feel about the Q
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Not sure what the link is for, I’m fine with people using it in their own life and media. But using it referring to me or in reference to lesbians makes my skin crawl as someone who used to be called that by homophobic teenagers
Saved
It’s like when I lived in Miami and everyone called me “gringo” or “flaco.” When I asked them to stop they would say it was endearing. But imagine if I called them “removed” or “fatty” what their reaction would be.
I mean it’s very common for fat men to be nicknamed “gordo” ie fatty. Of course it’s ignorant but definitely not meant offensively.
Fatty? Is that a slur for something? Or was everybody there just overweight?
Flaco means skinny
Ohhhhhh… That took me a second to understand.
New response if TERFism:
“Ok dipshit”
Language is owned by the group.
Individuals don’t dictate to the group.
This individual is asserting a definition of “dipshit” that contradicts the definition held by the group.
Except there are different groups.
are you saying it’s unreasonable to ask not to be called something you don’t want to be called?
Depends, I’ve had people request I stop calling them “dude” or “man.” The first of which being my dad, who insisted when I was young that it was disrespectful and I should call him “dad” or “father.” This did not go well for him, even to this day, spoke to him last night and at one point said “Dude so I was reading this article the other day…” My grandma also requested the same, as ironic as that is in this post, and was met with similar resistance. It’s like asking someone to quit saying “like,” it can be done but it takes active effort to change their speech pattern, to which I say “no, it is neither disrespectful nor gendered, and I will not actively change my entire speech pattern to satiate an unreasonable demand from one person that I know, so you can either get over being called dude just like literally everyone else I talk to, or we don’t have to talk, dad.” I’m not doing it to piss him off, it is just how I talk.
“Hey, son, when you call me dude it feels like you don’t respect me, like I’ve lost the right to be your father, something that I am incredibly proud of. I know that you mean it conversationally, so I try not to take it personally, but in my mind it’s a term of mutual connection and endearment and it means a lot to me to be able to hold that title for you.”
Oof, fuck, I did emotional damage to myself.
Yeeeeeaaaah he didn’t tell me he was proud of me until I was 25, so “probably not.”
Also I did/do call him dad, but dude is more of an interjection or exclamation than an honorific. “Hey dad how you been? … Word cool glad to hear it. OH DUDE so I was talking to mom the other day, and…”
“Dude” like 100% of the time means either I forgot an acquaintance’s name or “OH SHIT my ADHD just reminded me of this thing I’m about to tell you” or “Maaaaaan/sheeeeeit/duuuuude” or simply the same as “bro/guy/buddy/pal/mack/playa/nword(can’tsaythatonebutykwim)/hoss/boss/cat/chingon/друг/чубак/comrade/friend/doc/anything-commonly-used-instead-of-a-name.”
no, you’re just an asshole.
No u
Crutch words suck ass. Go to Toastmasters.
“No.”
There’s a certain societal inertia you have to push against, and it’s unrealistic to expect everyone to change these patterns for you instantly. Friends/family/kind acquaintances will take some time, and others may never change for your sake.
I get that it’s challenging for some people, but the actual difficult part is just getting people to have the baseline of respect to even try.
Like at any larger social gathering, even among “woke” commies, etc, someone is going to be misgendering someone else like every other minute, but we’re all doing our best and actually trying. We just muddle through.
I think most peoole that agree with OP understand the societal inertia, and complications occured by having a prefrence contrary to the majority.
I think the point of this post is to be part of that pushback. To have those who have never been in the minority to have some empathy. So that when we meet somebody who has a prefrence that makes you do some work, people may be more inclined to accomidate and support othrs.
It would require a feat of marketing to shift the definition used by the group. I think that’s how it’s generally done. Call it reasonable or unreasonable or whatever you like.
Wrong. The group is enslaved by its language. humans just go about vommiting grammar. utterances, words and narratives muchlike genes just seek to establish themselves and prolong their stay. There is no free will. Capricornus agnus dei Dark triad 6 6 6
We started calling my wife’s narcissistic psychopathic Russian ex dipshit because we got tired of having to use his name. Now I barely remember his name, it’s just dip shit
Then one day she got tired of his crap, beat the shit out of him, so now we just call him dip
Reminds me of Nelson Piquet, a former F1 driver, calling Lewis Hamilton a Neguinho when he was talking about current day F1 drivers in an interview. He called every driver by their name except Hamilton. Then Piquet and his brother ofcourse went with the “that’s how we always call each other even my grandma calls me that” defense
Generally being nice to other people is a good thing. It makes the world a nicer place for everyone. And in cases like this, it seems like it is pretty easy to be nice - just don’t call that person ‘dipshit’. That just seems like a very low-cost way to show the person that you respect them.
I understand the desire to have people use your pronouns, and as long as one can see what gender you are “presenting”, one should use those pronouns.
If someone prefers other pronouns, then I’m sorry… Many people (me included) have a hard time remembering names… I wouldn’t have a chance remembering a large set of different pronouns if I can’t even remember the names of that person. A pronoun is a non specific way of addressing someone and a break life saver like “you”…
To to switch to an all inclusive them/they for everybody seems overreaching.
If it’s not obvious what pronouns someone prefers, then they shouldn’t be annoyed if someone makes repeatedly mistakes.
And this makes it hard to distinguish a mistake from an insult…
It isn’t about remembering names, it’s about being willing to use the correct one when informed. Exchange pronouns for proper names to test the concept.
If you forget someone’s name and you think it is ‘Pat’ but it is actually ‘Kelly’ would you continue to call them '
KellyPat’after remembering that it is ‘PatKelly’?*Edit: I love that I mixed myself up even in my example. But to prove my point I’ll call the correction out and be fine with that.
See, no, if I forget someone’s name I’m entirely happy with things like “alright dude see you later,” you can entirely get away without knowing someone’s name. I have people I’ve known for years, don’t know their name, not sure they know mine, and that’s fine.
My problem (and many others I guess) is that i won’t remember Pat or Kelly the next time. And the next time. And the next time etc etc. Especially if I only see her ever so often. No chance to remember special pronouns beyond what gender they present. He/she/him/her is relatively easy (but not always…) them/they or anything else they prefer seems overly complicated in a social setting.
But if I remember the name and intentionally use others to taunt you, then yes, I would be a cunt. And I try not to be one…
If the same person repeatedly makes the same mistake after being corrected it’s fair to think that person might be an asshole.
The problem isn’t someone getting a pronoun wrong on occasion. It’s when someone deliberately uses the wrong one, and often times stresses the the pronunciation, in order to make sure you know they choose to use the wrong one deliberately.
If they act like cunts, we should call them cunts. But I totally understand that’s not possible in all situations, like when you have a person in power cunting all over you.
LMFAO, I thought it was “nigga” for a minute there.
I think both is problematic.
If you know that dipshit is not meant in a harmful way by the other person, then why do you care being called it?
Same on the other side, if you know the other person wouldn’t like to be called dipshit, why would you call them that?
I really think they both have problems that they need to address within themselves.
You make an interesting point about intent, but I think the missing part is trust. If I trust a person’s intent, then their actions matter less in terms of a reason for feeling hurt. But, how many people does a typical person trust that way? Even so, after being confronted with the unintended consequences of their actions, they should realign their actions with their intent in the face of that new information.
Not wanting people to do things to you is not wrong. I don’t want people to defecate on me, even in an affectionate or accidental way, even though it’s not harmful. Is that wrong?
I don’t want you to walk next to me on the street. The view of you pisses me off.
Is that wrong? Or am I allowed to tell you where you shall walk?
If the person truly doesn’t mean no offense with “dipshit” but you still take offense from it, that’s what I’m talking about.
Same as walking on the street, if you don’t want to see the person, just don’t go on the street close to them. If you don’t want to hear something they’re saying then don’t speak to them, avoid them.
I already said that if someone doesn’t want to be called dipshit, then there’s no reason to keep calling them that.
Yikes
It feels like your looking for a way to be offended. If someone told me they don’t want me to walk next to them, I wouldn’t walk next to them because we should be allowed to control a space around ourselves. If someone said they don’t like looking at me, that’s solved by them not looking at me.
Reasonably remove yourself from a situation if you can. Don’t harass people. Treat people how they want to be treated. Work together to solve problems. This is stuff children learn, it’s not hard. Because the problem with your logic is that you can say “I’m allowed to invade your personal space. It’s on you to leave.”
But, because you want to feel offended, you will likely say “Oh, what if my personal space is five miles around me what then?!?” to which I would roll my eyes, say ok, and let you enjoy your zero friends.
that’s solved by them not looking at me.
That’s exactly what I’m saying here. The one that doesn’t want to be called dipshit should remove themselves from the situation where they’re called dipshit, i.e. cut the person out of their lives.
I’m not offended, I’m just saying that policing someone else’s speech is the same as asking them to leave your general vicinity, i.e. not particularly reasonable.
It isn’t wrong to police certain speech, unless you think it’s okay to threaten harm to people. We put limits on what is allowable, regardless of what you think. We judge people for what they say. All you’re arguing is that the person calling people Dipshit should be allowed to call people Dipshit… And they are? There are no laws about calling people Dipshit or anything. Hell, you can yell slurs at people in most places. That doesn’t make it right. It doesn’t make them not a horrible person.
You keep looking worse for wanting to call people anything you want without being judged. Do you get that yet?
That’s not how it works at all.
The person being addressed has an issue and reasonably has requested an accommodation that costs nothing.
The other person says nah, can’t be bothered, I don’t care how you feel. Suck it.
These are not the same thing.
Edit: words.
It doesn’t cost nothing though.
If a person habitually calls everyone “dipshit”, they need to pay close attention every time they speak with that person, making sure to think about every word coming out of their mouth and making sure none of these is “dipshit”.
Just try speaking to someone and never using “the” ever, it’s incredibly hard. If you’re used to speaking in a certain way, it’s very hard to change and takes a lot of mental work. And it’s ok if it’s one word with one person… but what if everyone decides a word or multiple words isn’t fine to them? It gets harder and harder.
This is not a complete non-issue like it’s being treated.
Actually I think the more people “banning” the word (so to speak), the easier it is to change your patterns.
Take the N word, many many white people around the 25-40yo range used to let it fly, mostly in an eminem type sense rather than a racist (ykwim) sense, and those people have almost all changed by now to not say it anymore because nobody is cool with it.
Meanwhile, my dad, my grandma, and one trans person I know, are the only three people who have ever said “stop calling me dude.” I say it every 3rd sentence to literally everyone, including my mom who I am not calling a “male human” when I say “dude,” I legitimately cannot stop saying it, especially since I only have to do it when talking to those three specific people, and I disagree with my dad that “it’s disrespectful,” and I disagree that it is a gendered term (in this context, it can be, like “how you guys doing” is different from “this is the guy’s bathroom” and anyone denying this is purposefully obtuse.)
I have no scientific basis for this of course but that’s my theory anyway.
Definitely.
I just thought it important with my comment to counteract the sentiment of “fuck what the person that is wrong feels”. That is exactly what is causing the resistance most of the time. Yes, sure, they shouldn’t be saying “dipshit” to that other person. But telling them it’s no problem when they themselves know that it’s a huge problem for them is just antagonizing them, effectively.
Sure, but then there’s a difference between dipshit and dude, if we drop this false equivalency. At that point, where the word is innocuous and not intended to offend, it is sort of unreasonable to ask the person to change their entire speech pattern simply because you’re unreasonably offended by the word. It’d be like being offended by someone calling you “yo” when asking something like “Hey yo you have the time,” it’s unlikely that person will be willing or able to acquiesce your request to stop calling them “yo” and only call them by their proper name or gender, I’m simply going to say “yo” again in 5min regardless of if either of us want me to or not. Actually I’m entirely likely to say “yo dude” at the beginning of every sentence lmao.
That’s why I wrote my initial comment.
They both need to acknowledge that they’re unreasonable. Dropping the metaphor.
It’s completely understandable that one person has trauma regarding gender and thus unreasonably feels offended by an innocuous word like “dude”. And thus, if you respect that person, it’s totally reasonable to try to accommodate them and not use “dude” when possible.
At the same time, the person requesting it needs to be aware that their request is unreasonable in the way that you just described, and thus it’d be reasonable for them to say “please don’t say dude to me, but if you can’t, it’s not that bad because I know this is my issue to be so offended by an innocuous word”.
Honestly though that just shakes out to “I still say it every 5 seconds, and for the first few times I follow it up with ‘shit, sorry’ but then I forget that too next time we chill.”
It’s literally so bad that the best answer is actually “we just don’t talk then.” And that’s fine, tbh. I’m too ADHD for relationships that require that.
“It’ll be hard but I’ll try.”
A lot of people have a hard time admitting they’re wrong or don’t know.
As I’ve already said multiple times, that is the reasonable approach. For some reason everyone thinks I’m for the continuing of people being called dipshit in this situation.
Yes. One has a problem of being called dipshit…the other is one.
Studies show self esteem is more impacted by the values a person grew up with than their own values. That means most of the time, developing or changing your own values doesn’t increase self esteem. You need to be respected in a way that makes sense in the culture you grew up with. Some people can overcome their birth culture, but not many.
I’ve had people say “you” is a slur.
Fuck off.
I could make a more detailed argument, but no. I should not need to.
That drag person?
Drag’s never said “you” is a slur, drag doesn’t even require that people use drag’s preferred pronouns.
People just get embarrassed to be misgendering drag on their own and get upset with drag about it.
You’re easily the worst thing on this site that has actual Nazis.
You can’t call Drag by drag’s preferred pronouns? Hell that one is easy to remember tbh.
A person who refers to themselves in the third person in one hand.
Nazis in the other.
You’d pick Nazis?
It isn’t third person (this comes from asking drag about it a while ago),
they(edit: er drag) treat drag as an actual neopronoun. Technically if there are infinite pronouns and neopronouns are valid, then it is just as much of a valid neopronoun as any other noun-self pronoun like kitten/kittenself, doll/dollself, or yes, drag/dragself. Below I’ve linked the wikipedia page for neopronouns, see the section labeled noun-self pronouns.removed by mod
Drag uses person independent pronouns, drag isn’t a nickname.
This might help you understand why someone who is okay with Nazis hates drag.
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Just block the user if they’re annoying you.
Okay.
