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So Trump is telling ICE to break the law? It looks like Trump is guilty of another crime.
Who’s gonna fuckin stop em??
They just arrested a judge. The only people who’ve been able to slow this roll.
What do you think happens next…?
The entire Armed Forces and Judicial Branch of the Executive is cronies from the Cabinet and AG down. If they feel like it they’ll mobilize militias to do their work for them.
Citizen cops. Watch out. You may not hate cops now, but you’ll understand what’s been wrong with the whole system real soon. “Good cops” will be placeholders for men favorable to the regime. They will be corrupted.
Bribes will become commonplace in day-to-day business. This will often feel counterproductive. That’s because it is.
Odds are this will play out quietly. Unless the Military does a surprise one, the Democrats aren’t putting forward anything capable of challenging the regime. Sorry AOC and Bernie, I love you but Coachella ain’t gonna cut it.
Build federated networks in your own life. The model applies. Organize horizontally not vertically/hierarchically. Find people making choices and doing things and help them.
Added predictions: the US invades Panama (again). Ukraine drags out. Recession settles in, staved off by markets hungry for short-term gains looted from Latin America, Ukraine, probably both. Probably around September a major bubble pops in the US stock market no matter what the tariff situation ends up being. Things get worse. Edit: Panama invasion may come as a result of this
So far breaking the law hasn’t bit him yet. Why should he start following it now?
Susan Collins just called: said he learned his lesson and it won’t happen again.
Fuck that bitch. Was the most laughably idiotic comment she could’ve made.
He has a power to pardon them all
It’s not a crime if there’s nobody left to uphold the law.
It’s only a crime if you are pursued for it. Until that happens, which it won’t, the law doesn’t matter.
Aren’t police and laws great? They do a wonderful job.
This is the actual reason why there is a 2nd amendment
They believe the constitution should be interpreted to uphold the will of a leader/law and order over liberty of the people.
I’m not saying I disagree with you, just telling you what the legal argument will likely be when they arrest people or return force when people try to defend their home.
That argument JD Vance made about judges not having the authority to rule against executive decision is not his original argument. Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument favoring unchecked executive authority over all other government and executive power over liberty for a very long time.
Let’s fuck 'em up then.
Law and order? What are you smoking?
Trump has always described himself as the law and order president
The argument of ivy league legal scholars that are helping run his administration is that the people elected the president. The president’s duty is to do what he believes is best to protect the greatest number of people.
If Trump says that this is law now, and this law is necessary to protect the country, then individual liberty and rights will have to be secondary for the good of the country
The Harvard constitutional law professor that created this legal theory is a huge fan of Carl Schmitt.
Schmitt created the Nazi legal agenda using a similar legal argument which argued the will of the leader should be placed above all written law because it was best for Germany, making the German constitution basically useless.
This allowed Hitler to legally carry out genocide.
Thank you for explaining, and yes, I get all of that about how Trump and his intellectuals are claiming to be about law and order. My point was a more simple one: it can’t be about law and order if the president is above the law. Maybe we could use the term “order and law” instead, since they’re subjecting the law to the hierarchy of political power.
Such executive supremacy would really only work if the Leader is infallible, and only a simpleton would think such a person exists.
Many people find comfort in authoritarian personalities.
It’s also possible if you’re just willing to stop paying attention, and believe the people in power are doing what’s best for you. Trust them 😉
Like I said, simpletons.
Following his orders = the law. He makes up the law, follow his orders.
That’s what dictators do.
If you thought overmilitarization of local police was bad, just wait until ICE gets tanks.
Yes, I understand that the 2nd amendment alone can’t stop a dictator if they have the army on their side… even though that was at least partly the intention when it was written
In a more just world, our local police forces would stop this illegal activity.
Our local cops owe their authority to the State
I have a hard time imagining a world with cops at all that don’t end up doing this
They are supposed to have some freedom from the state within their own city/county jurisdiction, but small government loving members of the GOP are trying to do away with that and force cities and counties to adopt state policy(which is often just federal policy).
My state AG is taking my parish to court over it this Wednesday
If you heard about the 2 year old that was just deported by ICE last week, that was also my state/parish.
That’s probably why states are trying to force local police to take on the role of ICE.
My city has what the governor and AG are calling “sanctuary city policy.”
Really the sheriff has just said they do not take a stance, but they don’t have the resources to handle the immigration responsibility the state wants them to take on. So the AG is wasting tax dollars bringing them to court this Wednesday to try and force the community to adopt federal policy.
How bout that small government and fiscal responsibility?
So if they break into my home, I can shoot ‘em, right?
That’s my plan. Just upgraded my front door gun to something with a higher fire rate.
Is it aimed at your front door, or is the actual door a gun somehow?
In America, we make most things out of Gun™ for convenience.
Yeah, and thanks to our advancements in Gun™, my new giant truck gets a much better “zero to 60 Minutes” time than the old one.
Ethically, yes. Legally, they’ll just kill you.
I mean, if the alternative is getting shipped to a torture prison in El Salvador with no due process? Not saying it’s a good alternative, but it is an alternative.
One of these options gives a person -and possibly their families- a chance to get away. The other option sends them to Salvadorian prison.
I’m not American but I know which option I would take.
Good, I don’t want to live in a fascist hellscape anyway.
Think of it a getting out early to avoid the rush.
Legally? You can kill them as well.
You just have to claim that you thought it was self-defense against what appeared to be a black man jogging around your house.
edit- have to delete this comment because I posted it under an organization’s lemmy account by accident instead of my personal account. sorry bout that. I do not speak for the organization and any opinions I shared on this topic are my own and not theirs. (i just help post information about events for them).
You are absolutely wrong that gun permits are necessary in all states. In Florida, the state Constitution actually prohibits gun permits/ registration. In fact, DeSatan recently lowered the age of gun ownership to 18, and removed the requirement for a 4 hour class in order to get a carry permit. So an 18 year old can just buy a gun, stick it in their waistband, and walk out of the store, totally legally.
The result of these laws, or lack of them, is that we just had a college campus shooting by an 18 year old. He was able to legally walk around with a gun without breaking the law, until he set foot on campus, where it is still prohibited. OTOH, the state legislature tries every year to pass a law that permits guns on college campuses, and new congressman Randy Fine just sponsored a bill to do that in February. Considering we just had a lethal campus shooting at FSU, its doubtful it will pass this year either.
You’re certainly free to have your own opinions but most of your assumptions shouldn’t be trusted by anyone else reading this.
It is possible to purchase and own firearms without a permit - typically just limited in form-factor and features (i.e. shotgun, no handguns or semi-auto rifles). And even when a (purchase) permit is required, that doesn’t necessitate there being a registry and frequently one is explicitly disallowed. It’s also possible to buy/trade firearms with private citizens (or 3d print/mill your own if especially crafty) which wouldn’t provide a record to anybody but the included parties. When you aren’t legally required to disclose you have a firearm it’s always better not to make that known. Besides the potential worries about a fascist government coming for them, there’s the concern that a list of firearm owners going public is a prime target for theft and break-ins.
Rifles aren’t necessarily “slower to load,” are you speaking specifically of bolt-action rifles with this? It’s about the same amount of time and steps to load a magazine into an AR15 rifle as it is a semi-auto pistol. Unfortunately that also makes them effective in an unlawful mass shooting situation.
If you feel a firearm is the proper solution to the situation you NEVER aim to wound or fire warning shots. It’s (presumably) always a life or death situation so you’re hoping for the most effective “fight stopping wounds” which is basically center mass of whatever you can see. Same thing with rock salt in a shotgun, it’s going to legally be seen the same as if you were firing shot/slugs so you shouldn’t treat it like something you can use just to scare something off. In close range, shotguns will have practically no spread unless you’re using an extremely cut-down barrel (typically cut to an illegal degree) - you still need to (and should be) direct aiming it and not wildly firing from the hip.
Which states just let you buy a gun with no background check or registration?
How are people convicted of owning unregistered firearms if registration isn’t required?
Isn’t there always a waiting period and a background check?
Felons aren’t allowed to buy or own guns.
PA and many other states in a private sale.
No permits needed in NYS for any rifle not semi auto (which was recent, as you could get semi auto rifles with no permit).
Which states just let you buy a gun with no background check or registration?
I’m not going to check current status of every state’s laws, but I did already address it’s possible to buy guns from places other than a licensed firearm dealer and required registration is less common than not. In private sales you’re at a minimum legally required to not intentionally sell to prohibited people but clearly that isn’t always obeyed - it’s possible some states require you to then register that transaction in some way but that’s not the default expectation/requirement everywhere.
How are people convicted of owning unregistered firearms if registration isn’t required?
People can be convicted if they are in a location or have prohibited items that DO require registration and they aren’t. Suppressors or short-barreled rifles/shotguns and full-auto firearms being common examples.
Isn’t there always a waiting period and a background check?
In my state, with a permit to purchase (good for 1 year, no qty limits) or a permit to carry (5 years, no qty limits) there is no waiting period. If buying from a licensed FFL there is still a NICS check with each purchase though.
Felons aren’t allowed to buy or own guns.
Correct. Felons also aren’t known for obeying the law so just being prohibited doesn’t ensure they can’t obtain a firearm.
Rifles aren’t necessarily “slower to load,” are you speaking specifically of bolt-action rifles with this? It’s about the same amount of time and steps to load a magazine into an AR15 rifle as it is a semi-auto pistol. Unfortunately that also makes them effective in an unlawful mass shooting situation.
yeah but the rifle holds only a few rounds. so the time it takes per bullet is significantly longer for a rifle.
I’m guessing this comment will get edited out too for being under the wrong account but I’ll share my reply anyway:
Unless you specify what you mean by “rifle” that designation does include things like an AR15 with a 50+ round drum magazine that will load and fire bullets as fast as you can pull the trigger. If you are talking about something like a breech loading single shot rifle or a Carcano that is certainly true, but specificity is actually important when talking about firearms and related laws and it’s not just pedantry for the sake of nitpicking. It’s why gun people get anal about when people interchangeably use “assault rifle” and “assault weapon”, or claiming a firearm is “fully semi-automatic” - it’s important to use precise language because there’s vast differences in the various terms and concepts. Yes, generally it’s possible to discern from context that someone using the word “clip” to refer to a magazine-fed weapon isn’t using it literally, but if you want to try to speak authoritatively on the subject you should know what the difference is.
Should be noted that some states actively forbid gun registration.
The entire purpose of the USA’s second amendment is to protect the people from the government. There’s not supposed to be a standing army operating on local soil. Police, soldiers and ICE, ATF, DEA etc are the actual enemies at war with the population.
People keep saying this but it’s not really true. Right wingers say it when convenient (not now, gee wonder why they’re suddenly not making the argument). The second amendment was meant to allow citizens to form militias on behalf of the government, at a time that the country did not have a military.
Most states don’t require a permit, and most states didnt have laws about private sales for years so basically a bunch of guns can be traded that have no paperwork, the government doesn’t know who has guns anymore
If you’re worried about an attacker at your door, get a shotgun. Rifles are for when you can aim at a target at distance, pistols for when you can aim at close range. If you can’t confidently aim at your target, a shotgun is very effective, even with only a partial hit. (And, if you miss, the shot is unlikely to significantly harm an innocent bystander.)
Also, most states don’t require registration. My state is a little weird in that they are avoiding registering firearms, so they make you register transactions.
Get a 12 gauge… The chachink of shotgun is a sound that sends chills up people’s spines
I would recommend the VR80 12-gauge shotgun. It is semi-automatic with magazines, which is pretty important if you are dealing with more than one trafficker. Plus, it is built on the AR-15 platform, which might be handy if warfare breaks out. If things get hot in that fashion, having mods could make it easier to engage at range.
Gee I wonder what Americans tend to do to trespassers.
I agree, but realistically there’s an entire private and public military behind this administration they could use against the people whenever they feel necessary.
The same people that argue what JD Vance does about the interpretation of the constitution not allowing for judicial decisions to supercede executive, also argue that it is up to an executive leader to uphold good/law and order as he sees fit. When it comes down to it, liberty is secondary to whatever the leader determines is necessary to maintain law and order.
Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument favoring executive authority and power over liberty for a very long time.
I agree with you, I just mean there’s a lot of Americans with guns, that have and are usually prepared to shoot people on their property. Whether they get in trouble? Idk depends if they figure out how to organize in time.
I just hope sometimes
An angry group of civilians would not stand much of a chance against an entire military/police force.
In addition to the entire military/national guard, state police, you also have Palantir and blackwater now on the side of the government
You’d be surprised what a disbursed guerilla force can do. Additionally, that assumes the entire army is still behind him even after he’s stripped so much from veterans.
It worked in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Hmm. Stand your ground against fascism.
The gestapo are here
Only good ICE is WATER ICE - which is still subjective, and oddly all CAPS.
Welcome to the New United States of America, where the Contitution is no longer valid where contradicting King Trump.
the people who follow his unlawful unconstitutional orders need to be held accountable for their actions when the next adminstration HAS to clean up this administrations messes.
It sounds like we should prepare for a rash of home invasion shootings. (I’m not promoting anything, just saying)
I know most people on Lemmy are already aware of this, but I’m wondering if anyone who still doesn’t think it will effect U.S. citizens (whatever that even means anymore) realize that DHS is also trying to dismantle their civil rights offices.
They are claiming it is because the offices keep getting in the way of their immigration practices, but only 2 of the 3 offices have to do with immigration.
They 3rd is the office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties. It doesn’t matter if you believe you’re the “right kind of American,” or you can argue that you can trace your family to the Mayflower. This is who ensures you have civil rights and civil liberties while dealing with DHS. If you or a loved one end up in DHS custody for some reason and need to use FOIA to prove it happened, this is the office you would rely on.
The people that handle domestic security for the country want to get rid of the office that protects the rights of Americans. Meanwhile, they have also signed this memo saying they no longer need a warrant to search people’s homes if they suspect there might be an immigrant hiding in your home bc those immigrants might be terrorists.
Again, if you’re thinking well I’m not hiding immigrants, it really doesn’t matter.
Maybe one of your neighbors reported you were to fuck with you. Maybe you pissed off the wrong DHS agent or other government employee and you’re being targeted.
The point is, if you’re not concerned because you think it won’t effect you, your ancestors that “came here legally” to escape tyranny would think you’re either stupid, delusional, or simply choosing to be in complete denial of reality.
Maybe one of your neighbors reported you were to fuck with you. Maybe you pissed off the wrong DHS agent or other government employee and you’re being targeted.
This is exactly what happened during the French Reign of Terror, the Salem Witch Trials, and countless other times throughout history. It’s happened before, and it will happen again. If someone doesn’t like you for whatever reason, they would now have a way to get rid of you, just by using one accusation, regardless of whether it’s true or not.
This shit is so similar to the reign of terror and other failed authoritarian playbooks, I’ve honestly wondered if they’re just feeding AI historical data to come up with plans that avoid the pitfalls of previous dictators.
Like they don’t comprehend that dictatorships will always inevitably fail because people have an innate desire/drive to be free from oppression and tyranny. Not because dictator X did Y instead of Z, so maybe if they combine dictator X’s strategy with dictators A and B, it might just work this time!
Yeah this is serious authoritarian secret police 101
They just defanged Congress and the Judicial, now they don’t need judges at all unless they want em. This seals the coup
Yep.
This means the 4th Amendment is dead.
Oh, any LE agency wants to search your house? Your car?
Uh, hrm, which very vaguely suspected migrants live in your building, your neighborhood?
2 miles away? Whatever, close enough.
Ok, now you’ve got ICE at your door, on the flimsiest evidence, connected in the flimsiest way, to a person suspected on a different set of flimsy evidence…
… And they are just searching your place because random guy may have been in the area, might have burgled you, whatever, who cares, we’ve got a warrant, lots of guns, do not interfere with our investigation.
So now thieves can just write ICE on a vest and they can rob you
ICE is a criminal organization.
A Terrorist organization.
All cops are bastards and most are working with them
There are some within ice who were reshuffled as punishment for Jan 6 investigations when Trump took over. They have been leaking information about what was going on to the press, and facing threats from the administration
I’m guessing we wouldn’t even know about this memo if not for people like this. I bring this up bc it’s important to keep in mind that if Congress will not act (which it seems like they won’t) we will be relying on the agents who are not loyalists, refusing to carry out orders.
If public opinion does not support agents who take a stand and refuse orders (not the loyalists, fuck them without a doubt) and have been leaking information like this memo, Trump will have ammunition that he can use to kill dissent and show other ice employees it’s in their best interest to carry out orders because the public is not on their side.
This is likely why he’s trying to reshuffle as many agents and even city police to get involved in immigration policy.
I voted for the current sheriff of my parish. First time I was ever passionate about voting for a sheriff because she was also a former police corruption monitor. She is now being taken to court by our state AG this Wednesday to force her to adopt federal immigration policy in her own jurisdiction.
If the judge agrees with the AG, which sadly, she probably will, the sheriff and local police will also be under legal orders to carry this shit out or face termination/possible jail time for interfering with immigration policy.
Easiest way to get shot.
And they will claim they are in their right to return force. Idk what to tell you. I agree this is fucked up and you should have a right to defend your home.
That is the most basic American shit. The people that are on the white house legal team agree with that unless it conflicts with executive authority. To me that seems like you might as well have a king at that point, but they believe that a leader is chosen to promote what is best for his people. Given he was elected to do that, law and order (which is up to the leaders interpretation) takes presedence over liberty.
Adrian Vermeule is a Harvard constitutional law professor who has been making the argument the constitution should be interpreted to favor executive authority and power over individual liberty for a very long time.
Hey ICE, if the President tells you to do something illegal, you don’t do it! You can still be held liable.
Is it really that hard to have ethics anymore?
The things is based on their legal interpretation of the constitution, the people chose the president to uphold law and order and do what’s best for the people. If the president determines this is what is necessary in order to protect the people from terrorists, his legal team will argue for a constitutional interpretation that says individual liberty is always secondary to the common good.
Just to be clear, this is not what I believe or support. This is what they will argue. I am writing this to try and warn people what they have in mind when they talk about constitutional interpretation
the supreme court gets to decide this. And considering some of the recent rulings about due process, I am hopeful.
But how are they going to enforce it? They’ve enforced 0 rulings so far. Trump has been publicly mocking them while defying their orders
I am hopeful if it does, but the memo is saying they can just do this. So it will take this actually being enforced and someone’s (or multiple people’s) rights being violated for this to end up before the supreme court.
I think it’s no coincidence there was such a high profile arrest of that judge in Wisconsin just before this happened.
Right, and history shows that these are major mistakes that always have consequences.
I hope so. If the Senate and representatives won’t take a stand (which seems they won’t), it will be up to police, federal agents, and military leaders taking a stand and refusing orders, probably being terminated if not jailed/court martialed, and public support for them.
ICE doesn’t care. They’re obviously enjoying being able to do what theyve been doing the past few months.
There are federal agents that have been reshuffled to ICE as punishment for the Jan 6 investigations, and have been accused of leaking information to the press.
I originally just thought the termination of civil rights offices would mainly be to use polygraphs on these employees and refuse due process rights because so many were trying to warn people of what this administration is doing.
I wasn’t expecting something like this memo so soon.
There are definitely plenty of loyalists carrying this shit out, but I believe the administration may be intentionally trying to reshuffle as many federal employees as possible (and now city police to ICE) to increase civil unrest and increase the chances the public will turn on the same people leaking information.
If Congress won’t do their job, it will come down to these people willing to refuse orders and face termination if not arrest. The only reason I bring this up, is that if this happens we should keep in mind that there have been people inside ICE trying to warn the country about this stuff for a long time.
If we are too quick to dismiss all of them as loyalists, the administration will be able to downplay any dissent when orders are refused, and possibly convince others who are on the fence that it’s in their best interest to comply bc the public is not on their side.
