Just saying: Lifetime Licences for Services are a ponzi scheme
I’d say it depends on how much the license costs vs how the service costs.
The analogy that comes to mind is old cemeteries (YMMV, this is from a New England perspective). People buy a grave and expect to occupy it forever. This is a problem for cemeteries because a cemetery will eventually run out of graves to sell. The sales of graves goes towards the upkeep of the cemetery. Once there’s no more space, there’s no more sales, and there’s no more income for upkeep.
Some cemeteries get around this by reusing graves. You rent a grave for, say, 20 years and after 20 years of occupancy your next of kin is asked if they’d like to renew your subscription.
Other places charge a much higher upfront fee and invest it, using the interest to pay for ongoing maintenance.
Other places just abandon the cemetery and let it grow over with weeds.
This analogy makes no sense
*ponzi scheme
… in what way? primarily selling products to employees?
Edited the comment, used the wrong word
I still don’t get it. aren’t pyramid and ponzi schemes more or less the same thing? how is the original subject either of them?
So, a service is something yourself have to pay for continuusly. A VPN Server from hetzner for example costs like 30€ a month, so in order for it to be lifelong, meaning like 80 Years, you`d have to pay 28.800€. And I say that with only 1 active Server.
So if you only pay like 300€ or less once for lifetime, you`d still have to rely on people paying the subscription in order to subcidize the cost of the people who paid only once.
But since people who use it regularly will buy a lifetime license, you always need a steady stream of New users to subsidize the old ones
::: spoiler ASCII Art^ /\ / \ / \ / \ / \ /oldest users\ ----------------------- / \ / \ / Newer users \ / Switching to \ / Lifetime \ ------------------------------------------ / \ / \ / Newest users paying for losses \ / From Lifetime licenses \::
nope, nope, nope! buy a business, own it’s debt and contracts. CLASS ACTION SUIT!
My ex cyber security firm did this recently. They gave out forever licenses. But slowly changed things that if you didn’t set up an email with your license. You couldn’t renew it. So once you replaced a device your lifetime membership was gone. They recently completely removed the code input for licensing. So I am no longer able to use my lifetime license I got from working there. Pretty scummy stuff. But the CEO is a drunk. So what do you expect? He fucked up the attempted IPO and did a share replacement strategy instead. Which is probably killing the company.
How do you not know? Do your due diligence lol.
This is also why if you hit the lottery, you should take the discounted upfront cash payout, and not get it paid in an annual annuity for 20 years. You never know if the government is suddenly going become moral about gambling, and cancel all lottery payments.
Take the money and run.
To be fair, it’s best to not participate in the lottery.
True but that is a situation that doesn’t really apply very often in the “if you hit the lottery” situation mentioned in the post you replied to.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re being smart about the lottery by thinking about which is the smarter course of action in case of a win. The only way to be smart about the lottery is to not play.
The only way to be smart about the lottery is to not play.
I don’t disagree, but I also thing playing the lottery once in a while is fine if you’re just doing it as a daydream or something. Back when I worked in an office, if the jackpot got high enough we’d do an office pool and everyone that wanted to would throw in 10 bucks or something. And I’ve also done the same myself for the above reason but I play at most once or so a year.
That’s the responsible way to enjoy it! But you can’t have any expectations that it’s a good idea beyond having fun with it. And I find that sometimes these posts about how to do the lottery in the smartest way possible kind of detract from the fact that it’s wrong and possibly harmful to think that it’s anything aside from a potentially fun thing to do.
Absolutely. However, if you are not the best with money, or on the irresponsible side; it might be best to take the annuity. Mathematically it makes no sense to do so, but if it stops you from blowing it all on hookers and coke in two years then its for the best. In other words, if you having it all is riskier than the state keeping track of it.
What’s wrong with hookers and coke?
Nothing… the real issue is all the other money you wasted.
Even if you’re bad with money, take the lump sum and go get a fiduciary advisor to handle it and give you a regular payout. Being a fiduciary advisor is important since it means they are legally obligated to work to the benefit of your money, not lining their pockets. Using something like a trust is another good way to protect you from yourself.
I mean more like someone who is irresponsible and maybe dumb. I was trying to be polite. Someone that doesnt even know what a fidicuary is.
Can’t you open up a trust with the money and put a provision on it saving you from yourself?
Im talking about someone who doesnt know wtf any of that means. Like the town idiot.
Sure you can… but that would mean you are responsible with money ahah
Also because that lump sum is all there is. If you take the annuity they put the lump sum into an investment account and then pay you out of the proceeds (from which they take a cut, of course), and you can get the same returns they get, without losing their cut, doing it yourself.
I learned my lesson about “lifetime” thanks to SiriusXM.
When Howard Stern got lured to SiriusXM they offered a deal where you buy the receiver and pay $500 for a lifetime subscription with unlimited transfers to different receivers. Fat forward to 2017ish when I bought my last car that had the receiver built into the radio and tried to transfer to the new one. I was told that was the last time I would be able to do that and in the future I’d be paying a $75 transfer fee and be forced into a monthly subscription.
Lifetime is a hoax.
Lifetime is a hoax.
No, it’s fraud.
The difference is that one is a funny joke and the other is a criminal act that ought to land corporate executives in prison, if the US weren’t an oligarchy too corrupt to prosecute.
This may be your lucky day then! You can likely use that lifetime sub now!
I did the Sirius lifetime deal a few years offered before the one you did (in 2003 I think?). At the time they called it the “Friends and Family” promotion. It was only $300 at the time for lifetime sub, and they gave you the hardware for free. I’m still using that same lifetime sub today.
I was told that was the last time I would be able to do that and in the future I’d be paying a $75 transfer fee and be forced into a monthly subscription.
This was absolutely true this was the rules at one point. However there was a rule change (via lawsuit maybe?) that allows UNLIMITED TRANSFERS and the fee is only $35/transfer. Its even on the SiriusXM website FAQ:
“Please note: You may transfer an active Lifetime Subscription to another radio an unlimited number of times. For each permitted transfer of a Lifetime Subscription, you will be charged a $35 transfer fee, and the transfer must be effectuated through your Online Account.” source
Your account is likely still alive with your name on it! Contact them and get back into it!
Further, back when you and I bought our lifetime subs the SiriusXM streaming service didn’t exist. It is actually pretty robust now. With your lifetime sub (even without it being on a vehicle), you have full access to unlimited commercial free streaming in their best quality bitrate (there was a time that they offered reduced bitrates for lifetime users but that’s gone now too).
For me, because of a further discount I only paid $230 for my lifetime sub because I got a credit for my previous monthly service and I’ve now had it for over 22 years. So if you do the math, I’m paying 87 cents per month for full in-car and streaming SiriusXM. Lifetime deal was SO worth it!
Yes, name and shame the suckers already in the headline so they get what they deserve! VPN SECURE , yeah, right.
It’s BS they didn’t know about it. They got the financials before the deal. Even if it wasn’t directly listed as a line item it would have been a part of the expenses.
They still thought the deal was worth doing as it was based on incoming revenue and outgoing expenses.
Well, any time you buy any service from any company, you’re depending on them to keep their word.
I’m not saying this is right, or ethical. But you’re taking a chance they’ll honor their service.
Sorry if anyone got screwed.
You’ve never heard of a contract?
Way to not see the forest for the trees.
I’m stating they don’t always honor the terms of the contract, and change the terms on a whim.
Good luck collecting a check for $0.72 from the class action lawsuit. A fraction of a percentage from their profits.
Depending on the terms and jurisdiction, there may be penalties for not honoring a contractual agreement.
Good luck collecting a check for $0.72 from the class action lawsuit. A fraction of a percentage from their profits.
This would be an issue of enforcement.
Yeah, you’re going to have to defend capitalism with someone else.
🤦
Companies aren’t held to contracts like people are held to contracts. One buyout, restructuring, name change, no more contract. It’s meaningless
Is this the case everywhere?
Genuinely curious, what was the point of you typing out all of this to put on the internet?
I don’t know how to say this without being rude.
I’m wondering if you’re a bot that just churns out a few semi-relevent sentences or if you thought this was going to contribute to the discussions at hand? Because it felt like it wanted to blame the victims and then pulled back at the end and I ant fathom why you stepped into the tightrope wire in the first place.
removed by mod
Lulwut? When did /r/TD start leaking into Lemmy. Did any of what you said have anything to do with what I said?
Are you feeling alright, man?
Edit: seriously leaning towards ‘bot’ at this point. Humans that find their way into Lemmy have generally been much more capable, and much less MGTOW
VPNSecure is the company.
Odd how they didn’t just put that in the title.
What’s odd is that it’s not in the Wired headline either, this is a direct copy of their headline.
Guessing it was a force copy title for the sub and the article wanted you to click. They put it in the body of the post at least.
Oh boy. Someone dig up the Tumblr post I gotta go to bed.
no no no nonononono come back and post it
Off topic: the onion needs to resume making videos again. Their “news” videos were amazing and most of them are still relevant today even though most of them are 12 years old. Also sex house was hilarious. Please bring these gems back 🙏
Because zero-click internet kills the revenue model. It’s unfortunate, but understandable until something better comes along.
Would love to see a co-op model spring up where views on sites like Lemmy generate revenue for publications without the click. I.E. pay $1 a month to a shared fund that’s distributed by percentage.
That would require us to pay for Lemmy, right? Or how do you mean? Where would the money come from, sort of?
Yup. Or perhaps pay into features, like full-page content inside the post. I.e. offset the revenue of the click. Oddly enough, that model would replace ads, too.
This is absolutely disgusting behavior. “Cannot honor the purchases,” my ass.
I feel like “the new middle ages” really was a correct description of our time. Well, we’re at the dawn of it. All our universal rights and universal truths are going to be subject to who’s holding the dagger at your throat, and we’ll have theocracies, family republics and feudal lords again. The blooming diversity of hell.
OK, this is a bit offtopic, just one can see such behavior in all areas today where they wouldn’t be normal 30 years ago.
I propose “the new dark ages” might be more appropriate.
To be fair to the new owners the previous ones never mentioned the lifetime subscriptions existed and they were sinking the company. Probably the reason the original owners sold in the first place.
It was obviously a cash grab from the company before fucking off, you can’t reasonably expect a lifetime vpn for 30 bucks. Either it eventually gets repriced, or they start mining all your information like every other “free” vpns.
Yet that was exactly what they sold, this is not too blame in the customer. They built a subscriber base on those purchases which is capital to them.
They need to uphold the contract that they entered in to.
Yeah this looks to me like everyone got scammed, including the new owners.
They also said that they were cancelling lifetime contracts that hadn’t been used in 6 months. Hard to see how those could be sinking the company.
Correct.
This is just bullshit being said so the owners can make more money.
Every single person you see who believes it and perpetuates it is a useful idiot.
That’s not being fair to the new owners.
It’s the company buyer’s responsibility to make sure they know about and honor existing contracts with the existing company, and it’s the company’s responsibility to provide that information to the buyer.
It is not ANYONE else’s responsibility to make them follow that. If something like this happens, the company(whether before or after the purchase) was in the wrong.
If the previous owner specifically make sure they do not know about that because they made a quick cash grab, how exactly do you imagine they should know about this?
Not the customer’s problem. Also, fraud.
But probably failure of due diligence because any seller who’s not a complete idiot would rather let the sale fail and let the company go bankrupt than risk committing fraud.
Due diligence what…?
I’m still salty about Cerberus’ ‘lifetime’ subscription
OKAY OMG TRUE I’M SO MAD ABOUT IT. I’M PRETTY SURE I GOT IT FOR FREE ON REDDIT SOMEHOW, I USED IT FOR YEARS AND THEN THEY AXED ME
Me TOO!! i sent emails to support, posted on a google forums thread, this was like what, 13 years ago already?, eventually the thread got deleted, reach out to google support, they told me to take it with them, they never ever replied. so since then i never purchased a “lifetime” of anything
fuck them.
the app was very good though, and while typing this i got myself worked out and realized im still livid
edit: bought cerberus un 2015, got the
Hi xta, Your Cerberus license will expire soon. If you want to continue to use our services please consider buying a license. Click here to buy a license through secure payment! Thank You The Cerberus Team
email on late dec 2019.
I had forgotten about that. Now I’m angry again.
Seems like the new owners got screwed over by the previous owners who “forgot” to tell them that they had a bunch of highly unprofitable users locked in without ever paying them a cent again.
Shitty situation for those “lifetime” subscription owners, but if the company shuts down because the new owners were sold a lie, they don’t have a VPN to use either.
That has nothing to do with the end user. In such cases they should sue the original owners.
The new owners mentioned that in the article. They said it would cost more to do than it would to just shut the business down.
What good outcome do you think the lifetime license owners would get in that situation?
I have no idea, but the end users should not get fucked because the new owners didn’t know what they were buying. In many countries it is illegal for the old owners to not let the new owners know of such things.
Without being able to offer any idea of a solution though, saying that means nothing. The company either gets shut down and those users get fucked and have no VPN, or the company stays alive and the users have no VPN but have the option to get one again.
The point is there’s no real way the lifetime licenses get honoured.
Just honor them and take the loss. The new owners did a bad deal. In many countries it would be highly illegal to cancel these contracts while continuing the business. Either liquidate the company or honor the deals. Fuck capitalism.
So you’d rather they just close the company down, so then no one can use their VPN. Big brain move.
The people operating the company do not deserve to run it. Maybe they should declare bankruptcy and let somebody who will honor the contracts buy it.
Allowing this kind of anti-consumer behaviour just allows them to juggle the company around to get out of contracts.
I call bullshit. I bet they knew, but saw it as an opportunity for profit and this is all PR spin.
Is this even legal? I mean people paid for the lifetime version.
There’s probably some fine print in the ToS that says they can do this. It may or may not be legal but that makes it a lengthier court battle to try to prove.
There are so many ways they can put the squeeze on. Session time limit, throttle fraffic, restrict usage times etc.
Then you can sell a monthly VPN+ subscription and offer revisiting lifetime users 2 years free if they move to the new “better” service.
I’m not saying I agree with any of this, but it’s certainly not a new strategy. They’ve nothing to lose. Those who are pissed off will leave, you already have their money and those who want to stay will pay up.
The VPN company can have their cake and eat it
They should be refunded tbh.
If the new owners purchased the assets, name, and technology and not the company itself, then it’s beholden on the remains of the old company to honour the deal… Good luck with that.
Except what you’re describing doesn’t make sense. If the new owners purchased all of those things, then in reality they purchased the company. Courts are very likely to agree on this. It looks like a company-wide sale, therefore it probably is, even if someone tries to add a line saying “we aren’t liable”.
But imagine someone could “sell everything other than the liability”. In such a case, the seller would be putting themselves on the hook to pay outstanding debts (i.e., the seller would be liable). And we know they have money – they just sold the thing. So then the seller would pay… But they know that in advance, so they would not agree to such a sale in the first place, unless they were planning to steal that money through creative accounting of some kind… But both parties know all of that that in advance, so they would both be acting fraudulently.
Which is a problem of the legal system around it.
Within most(or all) EU countries this would count as a continuation of business and all previous liabilities (e.g. employees contracts, customers contracts, etc.) would need to be honored.
Why it is done this way? To prevent people from doing exact that.
How many people start companies, rack up a bunch of debt, then create another company that buys everything except the debt?
NOW you’re getting it.
This is the exact reason GM still exists.
It kind of looks like the new owners of VPN Secure got screwed - the last owner made all these costly lifetime deals and didn’t tell them. The obligation/liability to service those deals wasn’t transferred to the new owners.
Which means the old owner is probably the bad guy here and still owes these customers for their lifetime subscriptions.
Sounds like the new owner didn’t do due diligence when inspecting what they were purchasing. Which means the new guy is an idiot and you probably shouldn’t trust your data with them.
You can do due diligence as a buyer forever but if the seller lies or doesn’t disclose… Problems like these happen. Lawsuits are potentially incoming to figure that one out.
Then you sue them to cover the differential
Commercial litigation is expensive AF and unpredictable. Ideally, good DD should prevent it.
But yeah, once you are fucked, get you a team of legal whores lol
deleted by creator
So the lifetime subscription offer was not in the subscription list anymore at the time of purchase?
This is why any good merge and acquisition contract have stipulations that update the price of the transaction 6 months or a year after purchase.
