I’m not actually surprised that the second american civil war starts in California. Cali always seemed like the most progressive state.
Progressive as in Pride-themed anti-homeless boulder
Reminds me of Victoria BC in Canada, whole place feels like a liberal nightmare. The place is run and populated by champagne liberals who step over homeless addicts on their way to their micro breweries so they can congratulate each other on how progressive they are.
This is nothing really. If people wanted war they would have strategy. It’s just pissed off people, not people with a plan.
Watching the riot over the past few hours it looks like it’s just bored people with mob mentality.
What do you think the people’s response should be to being black-bagged off the streets by people who don’t have badges, don’t wear uniforms, drive in unmarked vehicles and wear masks?
This hasn’t even begun to get nasty, yet.
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This is arguably the most dangerous kind of war, at least for the elites and authoritarians. Angry people without a plan are unpredictable.
how are they supposed to make a strategy? I mean I’m with you 100%, but normal people aren’t going to be able to create a war strategy without some sort of funding and support.
I mean, strategy forms as you test the waters and see what response you get. The infancies of rebellions often aren’t the most strategic.
I just want to take a moment to say the “Biden was no better than Trump” crowd can go fuck themselves.
Nobody claimed that
'cept the entire tankieverse saying that you shouldn’t vote for Biden (later Harris) because they’re the ones causing the genocide in Gaza. Like yes, they did jack all to fix it, but we all knew Trump would be even worse. Telling that to just about any tankie resulted in “How can it get any worse than genocide? Voting for Biden/Harris means you voted for genocide” or something along those lines.
Didn’t take very long for Trump to go “lol Gaza is prime beachfront property tho, let’s get em fuckers out” after he got his throne back.
Two different topics. Giving billions of dollars and unlimited diplomatic backup vs giving billions of dollar and unlimited diplomatic backup. There is nothibg different when it comes to gaza. But i never saw people here saying trump would be better for american
It’s less that anyone said he’d be better for Americans and more that everyone said don’t vote for Harris, while Trump received no criticism. Getting dem voters to stay home is an old old republican strategy and the tankies definitely helped.
We are not Dem voters
Oh sorry, republican voter and/or republican helper.
Y’all take us for granted but give us nothing 🤷🏻♀️
They actively courted the likes of Dick Cheney. They are perfectly fine with what’s happening right now
Oh yeah it was definitely fucked up. But at least we didn’t end up with Harris, so the world is saved.
No, the world remains fucked up in either case.
Are you blind and deaf?
No
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Your mother surely didn’t taught you how to be civilized
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I’m reporting your uncivilized comment. Learn respect
Literally millions of people claimed that
Only republican cultists
They were so hard to tell from genuine but deluded leftists.
Lol
What are you accomplishing right now?
They accomplished saying the people that helped get us here with idiotic false rhetoric can go fuck themselves. I’ll add preferably with something sharp.
These things are always so annoying and uncritical. They are not wrong that the democrats are a conservative party, but that is still where the current progressive movement lives.
I think there is a bit of a trap in seeing the maga rise as a monolith, but I think there are two main wings. The evangelical side and the libertarian side. They might have some overlap, but their motivations and goals are still rather distinct. The important take away for this short essay of sorts is that they have agreed on enough points to move the overton window to get large parts of what they want. For the evangelicals it is abortion bans and ten commandments in schools. In the libertarian wing it is DOGE (inspired by the libertarian president in argentina)
Tankies and others who say “Biden was no better than Trump” are really messing up our ability to have a leftist/progressive party. In either growing it with-in the dems or starting from scratch. I want to understand what they are saying, but it is frustrating how unserious they are in actually achieving goals.
No no, you see, voting for Biden would be voting for this too, somehow. Because they are part of the same system, or something? Both sides same and all that.
Honestly the mental gymnastics are too much for me to effectively work out into a distilled comment.
the people downvoting you are morons and i’m not sure why they’re even here.
How about “America has always been a shit show, and Trump is the parody version”?
trump isn’t the parody version… he is the logical, and inevitable end point. he is the perfect avatar and representation of what america is, what it stands for, and what it has ALWAYS stood for! trump is the perfect president because he so perfectly encapsulates every single american value: he is lazy, fat, stupid, corrupt, proudly ignorant and scared of anything he doesnt understand.
how do you look at 250 years of american history and not see that he represents exactly what made america ‘great’? genocide, slavery, segregation and jim crow laws…
Repeat after me: A government that is bluntly sending weapon to bomb kids have no concern of it is own citizen.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.
These people are protesting against extrajudicial deportation, deporting children, harassing legal immigrants, the Nazi government, etc.
It’s not a fucking immigration protest. They didn’t deploy the military for immigration protests. People spoke out against Nazis and the military was called in.
Yeah, it’s no longer an “immigration protest”. It’s a NAZI protest.
If you don’t own a gun, its time to get one, regardless of your stance on them. This is martial law without having to call it that.
There is no challenging the military as the citizenry. This is terrible advice.
What we should be doing is encouraging insubordination by service members. Why the fuck would you agree to use military force against your fellow Americans, on American soil? Not only is that unconstitutional, it’s simply not what you signed up for. Say no
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most of South America would disagree with you.
Anyway. GovCo can’t win anyway. Not even in open hot war. They don’t have the numbers.
Military and Natl Guard combined are less than 3,000,000 people. And that includes the logistics that makes it all work. They couldn’t handle Afghanistan and its <50,000,000 people.
You overestimate how willing people are to throw their bodies at the problem. Things have to be so bad that they expect to die anyway. Otherwise, your militia sign-ups will be limited to only those most brave, ideological, or stupid.
You also underestimate how much more effective military training and ordinances are among the US military vs militias. If they really wanted to mow down civilians, it would be fish in a barrel, even if everyone in the militia is armed.
This is why the hope is that US service men are committed to the constitution and not to Drumpf’s orders. It’s a thin hope.
They’re committed to the paycheck. Don’t be naive. Do you think American soldiers are uniquely unable to carry out atrocities? That sweet salty buttery baby jesus is gonna reach down, touch their hearts and make them defy orders? I’ll refer you to uh, the last 25 years of action in the middle east.
This empire is dying live on TV. And all of them so far have ended bloody. We won’t be the exception.
I did say it was a thin hope (well I said ‘thing’ but I’ve corrected it now).
But I think you give your service men too little credit. Even the police. How many fatalities or even serious injuries have actually occurred during protest activities? These a generally not people who want to kill anyone, particularly not their American brothers and sisters. But when one side dehumanizes the other, all bets are off. If things actually become life threatening, then everything changes. Kill or be killed.
I’m happy to be surprised. But I have set my expectations appropriately low.
I expect some inciting event over the summer. Someone gets killed by the feds and those protests really do turn into real riots. Then the clown prince will escalate. Open war by Christmas.
Like I said. I’m happy to be proven wrong. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. Maybe we’ll luck out and he’ll have a stroke mid ramble or maybe some general will shoot the bastard during his military parade. But I don’t think we’re that lucky.
Another possible is a general strike. That Union leader they black bagged earlier this week. He hasn’t been released yet. If they try to deport him on some trumped up bullshit that’s gonna have an apocalyptic backlash from basically every union except the police union.
There is no challenging the military as the citizenry
Says someone from the nation that mainly loses military conflicts with the citizenry…
Where do you think I’m from?
Based on your statement referencing the constitution I would say the states, but if I am mistaken then I apologize.
Oh nah, I’m from the south. We’re all descendents of the British colonies at the end of the day though.
Rereading your comment, I can appreciate the irony. I guess I’m trying to talk my American friends out of aspiring toward the next civil war. I don’t think they realize just how good they have it despite the police crack downs. It’s what gives me some small hope if actually ordered to fire on civilians… They wouldn’t.
Most states have a token State Guard that answers only to their governor, not the federal government. If Trump keeps this shit up, states are going to start disbanding their National Guard units, and shifting them into State control.
Except Trunp federalized the California National Guard, bypassing Newsome, that’s a pretty big problem. Newsome is suing Trunp. In the meantime - violence on citizens by cops and Trunp-allied forces continues.
Except Trunp federalized the California state force
No, he did not. He federalized the California National guard. The State Guard is a lesser-known organization that answers solely to the Governor. They cannot be federalized. Which is why we’re probably going to be seeing states putting more of their resources into their State Guards and less into their National Guard units.
As for the CA National Guard: Article I, Section 8, Clause 16. The State retains the sole authority to appoint the officers of the Militia.
10 USC 246. The National Guard is the Militia.
Newsom has the authority to appoint the officers of the National Guard. Revoking the appointments of the Commissioned and Non-Commissioned officers of the California National Guard, he effectively disbands the organization.
Trump has no authority to override Newsom’s authority here.
Edited to correct.
yeah. not with that attitude.
Gavin Newson specifically said that he did not ask for or need the 2,000 troops and that sending to LA would only make things worse.
Sooo, there’s that.
Legally I believe the National Guard must be mobilized for a legal reason and until Trump has identified an actual cause, he cannot mobilize them himself. So Newson should just order them to stand down.
Newson hasn’t done that though.
“oh, Trump wouldn’t do that, it’s illegal”
Phew, what a relief!
Also, when Trump does illegal stuff, people tend to allow it and obey him. If they try to shut him down using the legal system, he goes ahead and does it anyway.
I kind of just roll my eyes when someone says, “Aha, it’s illegal! He can’t do that!” We don’t really live in that world anymore.
My emphasis was more on Newsom not ordering them to stand down. They’re under his command until a legal order from the POTUS supercedes his command.
Yeah, this is fucking depressing. Anyone wanna fight about Linux distros?
Biebian or Hannah Montana Linux
TempleOS
Biebien and Hannah Montana Linux are affronts to god, whereas TempleOS is a tribute.
Do either of you two know how to get to that bird game in TempleOS?
Linux Mint Master Race, reporting.
It just werks.
Ill do you one better. Windows is superior to Linux! (N.b. this comment is strictly to cause a ruckus)
Agents provocateurs spotted! The top comment guy was right all along!
Pfff, Amiga OS rules. (nb never used it, but but you asked for ruckus.)
Naaaaaw. Commodore 64 all the way. KCman is still the shit
I use ARCH btw
Not much of a fight when I use ARCH
But why not Arch with a mix of Rocky in the network acting as NASs and small edge compute nodes?
Me too, btw.
Whatever side of this issue you fall on, you should at least know that, tactics-wise, joining with the LAPD to do raids in Eastside LA is not going to work how you think it will. There’s movies, albums, books, historic moments in living memory, etc. that warn about that. Start in Sacramento or wherever. Don’t expect East LA to care about your “authority.”
East LA. The best Pawnshops in America!
I don’t know history well…do tell or link some reads?
The Irish resistance is the closest analogue to what that kind of armed resistance would look like.
This has been going on so long that there’s an 80’s Cheech and Chong parody song about it.
The 1992 riots started in South Central, which is historically African American. East L.A. is sort of the hub of Hispanic “immigrants.” (immigrants in quotes there because America swiped that land after the Mexican-American war; lots of Hispanic Americans didn’t cross the border but had the border cross them).
I don’t live there. I’m just an enthusiastic idiot. I love Los Angeles. So, I can’t do its history justice. Hopefully, someone else can. I have friends there and I go there a fair bit but it’s not my hometown so I don’t want to misrepresent L.A. (I live in New Orleans so L.A. and LA—the postal code for Louisiana—get mixed up a lot. So, I use L.A. for the city. No one else does.)
It’s just Cheech on the song …the two had split up by that point and Tommy Chong refused to have any part of it.
My apologies. I wasn’t following their career closely when I was 7.
The powerful and their goons seem to have forgotten that sure they can roll up anywhere with an army and overpower protesters, but that’s not going to solve this. It’s just going to start a true resistance.
There have been few times in history where resistance forces have fought state forces on an open battlefield.
As seen historically, a typical resistance force will harrass the enemy. Bomb their buildings, stockpiles, and infrastructure. Wait until the state goons are alone, at their homes, at the bar, in a grocery store and then that’s when they kill them.
All sending the national gaurd in to kill protesters will result in is a true resitance forming.
The powerful have forgotten what it was like to be afraid to leave their fortresses
I hope I’m not giving too much credit for a strategy, npbut it might just be an attempt to provoke a reaction. Either California backs down or they resist and there’s an excuse to take over. Look for a bunch of masked thugs to try to arrest Newsom for “treason”
I hope a true resistance is born of this. We need to band together and rise up!
One word - drones.
Only useful if you know when and where someone will be. Obviously heightens surveillance capabilities, but they can’t be everywhere at once
You should look at the fields in Ukraine strewn with the fiber optic cables of 100’s of kamikaze drones.
I mean yeah the US military always has the option to raze entire cities to sniff out a resistance. I doubt that will be done
I don’t think the threat is coming from the military in this case, it’s coming from MAGA.
I’m pretty sure they were throwing drones in on the side of the people, not the government.
Funny how he doesn’t hesitate here, but when Congress was literally in danger of being fucking lynched on Jan 6, he didn’t do shit.
You don’t call for a flag on the play when it’s your team causing the penalty
He was in charge of the lynching
Only because Republicans despise California and Californians with all of their being.
I’m afraid he’ll declare martial law. What happens if he does?
We all know what it takes to remove fascists from power
There would probably be no consequences for him, but the “martial law” would probably be ignored and not happen.
As I understand it, in the US, martial law can only legally happen if the courts are unable to function. Basically, if things are so bad courts are unable to judge people, you let the military judge them.
The law hasn’t mattered so far. It is illegal for him to deploy the National Guard without the governor’s consent, which was not given. Not only was it now given, but Trump went out of his way to denounce the governor while illegally deploying the National Guard.
The US is no longer operating within the constitution, it is operating under the appearance of one, an appearance that falls apart the closer you look at it.
What you say and what I say don’t contradict. ICE is already acting as if martial law was declared, ignoring due process/habeas corpus. If Trump declared martial law, those that still follow laws, constitution and the courts would keep doing so and those that follow Trumps orders above all would also keep doing so. There would be no substantial change.
Hence Trump’s verbal war on the judicial branch of our government.
Zero consequences, as usual.
Doesn’t the California National Guard report to the Governor?
Normally yes, but the president has the power to federalize National Guard troops in extraordinary circumstances. That power hasn’t been exercised since 1965 though. Until now.
I mean, only if the National Guard doesn’t just decide no it isn’t extraordinary circumstances and refuses to mobilize beyond being in the area they were ordered to be generally (as in it is reasonable for the president to be able to take control of national guard unit and order them to deploy, but ordering them to take action against a non-violent entity is a bridge too far).
There are no rules, only choices, people that pretend otherwise are afraid of seeing themselves in the mirror.
Rather than addressing the issue. Yet again.
They are all a bunch of Racists. The existence of brown people is simply too much for them
🛎️🛎️🛎️
Oh no worries. Trump is such a fan of insurrections he hands out pardons by the thousands for them - every single pardon personally signed by him, and totally not by autopen, I’m sure.
Seriously, though. Can’t wait for him to cry victim and pull a surprised pikachu when all this pushback to his antagonization makes it to the steps of the White House. Hope he keeps the surprised face until the bitter end, and that end can’t come soon enough.
Going to be watching this with great curiosity and excitement. Hopefully other places get the idea. Going to be very curious where Newsom comes down on this.
LAPD is already assisting ICE, so take a guess.
So, there’s a cool documentary called Winter On Fire that covers the 2014 Maidan revolts in Ukraine. The relevant bit is at the end; after the police open fire on an unarmed march, the protestors announce that by 0900 tomorrow, they’re marching on the capitol building and they’re all going to be armed with guns (all 90,000 of them), and the cops can choose to be there or not. Well, the cops fucking skipped town that night, along with the president. Nobody has ever accused LA of being a city that is deficient in guns, or if they have, then they’re fucking stupid.
DC would nuke LA.
As deranged as DC may be, I seriously doubt it. Especially because, being as old as he is, Donald was probably raised through the fever pitch of the cold war. He’s probably shit scared of the use of nuclear weapons. Did you notice how quickly the Trump administration jumped in to try and cool things off between India and Pakistan? I’d bet anything that it’s because Donald has a deep-seated urge to avoid nuclear weapons use.
I don’t mean literal nukes, but they would probably declare an emergency and send in substantial military force.
Edit: It’s crazy that we live in a time where I have to be specific about this.
I also wouldn’t even rule out literal nukes. Dude was talking about nuking a fucking hurricane…
Like there’s no article of the Constitution giving right of protest.
There’s also a part that says freedom of speech, right to a fair trial, freedom from unreasonable search & seizures, right to asylum…
How’s that going?
But you dont understand one protestor littered , meaning that it is now an illegal gathering and that the thousands of people gathered are a violent mob.
Very convenient
Having seen a couple of vids from folks on the ground it seemed akin to a proper French riot. Folks lobbing bricks, makeshift barricades, vehicles burning etc.
Yeah folks may feel justified an upset but it isn’t exactly surprising when authorities crack down to restore order in such a situation.
Restore order? Those who caused disorder cannot “restore order” by causing more disorder.
Sure they can, that’s called a revolution - in that case those who caused the disorder get called “heroes” and “freedom fighters”.
If they get smushed by the current authorities coming back in force, then they get written into the history books as “criminals”, “rebels” or “insurrectionists”.
Winner writes history and all that.
People don’t just instantly forget the moment after an event ends, especially now.
The point I was making, is that bringing in cops and the national guard to beat protesters does not restore order to a crisis caused by ICE kidnapping people. It is an escalation that will very likely be matched if CA hasn’t totally forgotten their past. Which they haven’t.
Read up on the '92 LA riots. Do you think US authorities are willing to use more, or less force today than then? Do you think LA civilians today have a larger, or lesser capacity for violence?
Thankfully I don’t think US authorities are anywhere close to PRC or Russia levels of force usage against civilians, but I would bet on the badges coming out on top if it came to a chicken race. That’s not to say it wouldn’t get ugly.
What you’re not understanding is that quashing a protest with force doesn’t make the anger just go away.
Thankfully I don’t think US authorities are anywhere close to PRC or Russia levels of force
The US is only trying to end Habeas Corpus, cracking down on free speech, personal and social freedoms, deploying military units in the streets, planting secret police in protests, and is currently kidnapping, disappearing, and sending people to foreign labor camps without trial while wearing masks and not giving any identifiable information… All while supporting and funding an ongoing internationally-recognized genocide.
Maybe you should be doing the reading…
It all depends on who started being violent first…
How do you mean? Most authoritarian regimes are maintained with fear and violence. Even in democratic states that don’t primarily rule through fear the government generally has a monopoly on using violence to enforce the law.
I mean that as we’ve seen cops are easy to start using pellets and gas, and when people respond throwing rocks, suddenly it’s a ‘violent insurrection’; that’s why I said it’s important to see who started it.
