The last few posts made here, they’ve shown up, made the most inane, idiotic, and pointless comments, upvoted each other in a frenzy of circle jerking, and generally made a pest of themselves.
They’re a nuisance, and add nothing of value to the Lemmy experience.
I’d be fine with defederating. I don’t care if they bring in more numbers and more ‘engagement’ if that engagement is generally shit and too difficult for the mods to moderate with the current tools available. I’d much rather be part of a smaller but friendly community that is actually familiar with NZ, than a larger more popular one that just turns into another cesspit.
Being on an instance that defederated them, noticably better now. Just do it…
I wasn’t around when they still on World, but I did see the equivalent to this post on 196.
Essentially the same concerns were raised.
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Have lemmy.nz reached out to hexbear? Do they know that their bombastic persona can be overwhelming for a small instance? Sounds corny but maybe we just ask them to go easy.
They aren’t ever going to chill out. Their entire purpose is to brigade, attack, harass, and argue in bad faith. The admins pretend to care about this, but they’re in on it as shown by this image. They’re getting defederated a lot right now because they cannot ever behave.
It was the whole point of them refederating (they used to run on a fork of Lemmy) to “dunk on libs” and brigade in general
Every time I read a stupid comment and then check the instance 100% of the time it’s hexbear.
So far I’ve not seen any rule breaking posts.
Edit: I made this comment after only seeing hexbear users in few nz thread but after seeing more and seeing how the partcipate. I think we should defederate. They will never participate in good faith as they are an extremist instance. Majority of the big instances have already defederated with them so its not like we will be singling them out. On the point of “diverse viewpoints”, policy so far bans extreme right wing instances and extreme leftwing instances. All the reasonable view points that a hexbear user could provide can be provided by the many leftists across other instances.
Yeah, that’s exactly the issue. Nothing of value comes from their instance, but they do follow the rules.
Then why is it an issue?
If you’re not going to engage in good faith with the discussion, then take a hike.
so why are you here, then?
You’re not great at providing examples or reasoning to back up your claims in this thread. You seem pretty trolling, dismissive, and hostile. Everything you’re accusing others of being.
As I’ve said countless times now, they don’t engage, they drown out. It’s not each individual comment that’s the problem, it’s the overall effect.
You certainly have repeated yourself countless times.
Just downvote and move on mate if you don’t like it
There’s more of them than there is of us, and they all upvote each other.
Sometimes you’re in the minority. Get used to it.
Regarding the edit, what is their instance actually about, what are their leanings? I haven’t been to visit, and don’t really want to.
Tankies. They are pro authoritarian communist or socialist regimes like China and USSR, and anti western liberal capitalist democracies like US and NZ.
They got banned from Reddit and moved to an isolated Lemmy instance long before the rest of Lemmy got big, but decided to experiment with federation fairly recently.
The only person in this thread that’s not engaging in good faith and trying to cause trouble is you.
So what’s with the attitude in your other comment? Clearly these people have no plans to engage in good faith.
They’re anti nato communists and some socialists. I took a geez at their “why does everyone hate our instance thread” and it seems that in their words, since they have been on the platform for 3 years they have a strong instance culture. They are used to fighting and battling trolls so when they see something they don’t like they swarm on it and argue aggressively.
From my opinion its a political community that focuses on pushing extreme left wing views. They are anti western, anti capitalism and anti racism and bigotry. I laughed because one of the reasons they keep giving for being hated is because “they’re always right”.
Being anti NATO, I suspect they’re also on Russia’s side regarding Ukraine? Yeah, fuck em.
They LOVE Putin and the CCP. They’ll dogpile anyone who disagrees.
Euww. Yeah, they can fuck right off.
They’re authoritarians. The communist stuff is just an excuse to worship authoritarian regimes like the CCP.
I think calling them anti capitalism and anti racist is a bit reaching as many of them seem to support the state capitalism of Russia and the CCP. And I have yet to come across a hexbear user that has ever brought up the current genocide of the Uyghur population in China, they’d much rather point fingers at western countries for their issues instead of holding up a mirror to their own beliefs regarding “communism” in its current form in Russia and China.
I was trying to be charitable since I think they would describe themself that way. Their position is not really logical because they are forced to support Russia and China.
While I definitely agree with the sentiment that they would like to describe themselves that way, but on the other hand no one is forcing them to support those countries. And a sizable portion of those users and supporters seem to be unwilling to have a civil discussion regarding the issues with their “alliances” when brought up by other users.
Who’s forcing them to support genocidal state capitalists?
I cant tell you why they support them it doesnt make much sense to me. I only saw them say that they were all on the same page about everything which means that users cannot deviate from the pro russia/china stance.
That just means that they are choosing to support state capitalists. Nobody forced them to have such awful beliefs but themselves, because they love authoritarian ideology.
Seems like a good move. It’s a crap dynamic at this point. Maybe later we could re-federate once the numbers aren’t so skewed. If people from there feel the need to discuss NZ issues they still have options. They can join here. They can make their own NZ sub if NZ issues are so important to them.
I like having an instance that isn’t defederated from too much (except CSAM) because I enjoy being able to see and subscribe to what I want. Hexbear is a shitty place, but I don’t like the idea of defederating because my feewings got hurt. I would prefer defederating because it’s a legal/human rights necessity.
This would be one of the funnier defederation reasons so I support it on behalf of hexbear
I never thought something so lukewarm would provoke such a response.
Who they choose to federate with is totally their choice, and I’m sure that - despite any protestation from my behalf that it’s a functionality spurious label - I’ll be branded a tankie, so probably going against the Code of Conduct here.
Shame that I’ll no longer see content from my cousins across the ditch if they do split, but them’s the breaks I guess.
Fuck off, we’re talking about you, not to you.
I was browsing new, and it’s just very silly so I had to comment. I’m not being inflammatory so it’s OK.
You just had to stick your nose in though.
Well, it’s a public forum… But if you ask us not to make top-level comments in your meta post, I believe it’s against our rules to go against your wishes.
> Hexbear user posts perfectly neutral comment
> Gets hit with an abrasive attitude
Emoji
It’s the “nazi bar” analogy, they’re not here to engage in good faith, they’re here to cause trouble. They don’t deserve the courtesy of civil discourse.
“They dont deserve the exact thing I’m trying to convince people that they’re not doing”
The only person in this thread that’s not engaging in good faith and trying to cause trouble is you.
I was browsing new
Bull. Shit.
So tired of you Hexbear jerks and your authoritarian propaganda. No you didn’t “just find this”, your brigading like you always do.
I saw comments on this post from like, 3 different hexbear users, which is a far cry from a brigade.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Tankies don’t deserve courtesy.
We are making contingency plans for Operation I-Kiwi Freedom.
I have filtered out a lot of the spammer accounts that just spew nonsense.
On one hand I’m lucky I can do that with sync. But on the other hand we shouldn’t have to resort to whackamole.
Please share a list of spammer accounts so we can point and laugh (at you)
That makes no sense?
The app I use has a built in filter. You just add a user to the filter and you don’t see their posts or comments.
I wouldn’t mind if it was a few “bad apples”, but every single fucking one of them are here to start arguments, call people racist, and generally act in the most abrasive manner possible.
What’s the argument there? People shouldn’t have oppositional discussions online? You just want to live in an echo chamber?
One of the saddest things about silicon valley social media products is the way they silo people off and prevent exchange of ideas.
And here on lemmy, reddit users who got used to it silo themselves off willingly.
People can disagree without being assholes or abrasive about it. I think that’s what ops referring to
That’s a common perception of people who are unable to bear someone disagreeing with them. I’ve looked at the actual discussions they’re complaining about. Not impressed by this attempt to turn a tantrum into a site issue.
The issue, as other commitments have pointed out, is that they all, quite consistently, behave in the most abrasive manner possible. It’s not a “few bad apples”, they’re all like that.
Wow how can he bear that kind of sustained harassment? Glad he’s holding up well.
But op is literraly doing what they say they’re not doing.
The issue is, there is no discussion or exchange of ideas happening, just a group of people behaving like seagulls.
Very good faith reply here. I have no choice but to take you at face value.
That’s always the way with these threads. Just formless whining that boils down to “they’re too active” and you look at OP’s user history and someone gently pushed back on them being casually racist the previous day.
Skill issue.
i mean, bro, you’re being racist as fuck in that other thread.
i’m not from hexbear, you gonna start a thread about kbin, now, too?
Oh boy, don’t get me started on kbin. Soooo much spam. About 90% of our spam reports (for actual spam) are for kbin.social posts, and I presume the reports don’t federate to kbin so I just remove it from our view and then it stays on kbin 🙁
Seriously if you have a suggestion I’d love to hear it. There are too many thoughtful kbin participants to consider defederation. But oh boy is the spam annoying.
Kbin is still being built, I’d suggest you get someone over there to flag this issue with their dev team.
It’s really not hard to remember. You’d only think that if you didn’t try to say it once even. Papakanghorohoro or something
you literally only missed an a in kanga
i didn’t have to look it up to know this
you know why? because i already knew the word papa and horohoro is the same fucking sound repeated twice. there is no possible reason this could be anything other than racist. i’m not from new zealand and i learned the word in fifteen seconds and i know fucking no te reo besides te reo, maori, haka and fucking PAPAKANGAHOROHORO
The term “racist” gets thrown about with so little though these days, it’s effectively meaningless.
Oh yeah? What are some other examples of things people call racist, which aren’t?
I only ever see racist people saying this
There it is again.
or maybe people keep calling you that for a very good reason: you’re a fucking racist
what other reason could you have for denying the legitimacy of one of your country’s official languages? why would you be othering it?
you’re a fucking racist. own it or fix it, but either way shut the fuck up.
Dude, you desperately need to chill the fuck out.
There’s plenty of names that are a nightmare to say in other languages, it’s not about the language, it’s that it will be an ongoing headache for the residents of the street.
And frankly, I think their voice is the most important one, because they’re the ones living here.
cool. how is papakangahorohoro hard to say or hard to remember? i literally just typed it from memory and i’ve seen it all of five times before. i know no te reo besides te reo, haka, maori and PAPAKANGAHOROHORO
“other languages” aren’t we talking about one of the OFFICIAL LANGUAGES of New Zealand? yeah bro, you’re racist as fuck.
Wait, the people living in a place are the most important voices? Jesus fucking Christ the irony.
Have another muffin.
I do not support defederating. I want diverse viewpoints. I suppor5 inclusivity. I don’t mind offensive posts. I can block them myself if I don’t want to see them. Please don’t speak for me.
Paradox of tolerance
I prefer “contract of tolerance”: once you stop showing tolerance you are no longer entitled to it.
Yes and no. We are here on lemmy.nz, a locally focused instance. Many users want to participate in NZ related content, and may be from NZ, even if their accounts are not on lemmy.nz. If hexbear is defederated, then they won’t be able to participate in any of the NZ communities, and this impacts all users wanting to participate here.
With that said, this (original) post has less than 1/4 of the up/down votes from users subscribed to this community, and an even smaller fraction are lemmy.nz users, so for sure there are a lot of people participating in this thread that are not invested in the outcome.
If they care that much, they can always make an account here.
In the end the decision is up to lemmy.nz, a random user from lemm.ee should in my opinion not have a vote in such a discussion.
The same goes for me, feddit.de has already defederated from hexbear, so I can’t even see any of their comments on this thread.
A big problem with Hexbear is that downvoting is disabled on their side, resulting in a lot more comments due to users being unable to disagree with something through the voting system. Should downvotes become enabled, Hexbear would become a lot more bearable to outside instances.
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The same goes for me, feddit.de has already defederated from hexbear, so I can’t even see any of their comments on this thread.
This answers a question I had, thanks!
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Here’s my view. Lemmy.nz is intended for an NZ audience. Hexbear has been defederated from 5 of the top 8 largest instances. This is problematic for us, as their All is much more likely to show lemmy.nz posts than All on other instances. It starts to feel like we’re being brigaded, even though we aren’t, because their instance is the 10th largest Lemmy instance and yet they don’t see most Lemmy posts (but they do see ours).
I don’t have a problem with international audiences occasionally posting in our posts, even people with no connection to NZ. I think it provides some great perspective on our issues. But when you post a thread, and it gets overrun with international users, I think this becomes a problem.
This may not seem fair on them, but what I want is a friendly-feeling community, and recently we have had a different vibe.
Personally, I have become less inclined to participate. I’ve written up a post about the Papakangahorohoro street, then decided not to post it because by the time I’d written my 150 word article the thread had such hexbear comments as “Get over it crakkkas” and “sounds like the crackers should go back to europe if they dont like it”.
I want to participate in a friendly community, and the last couple of days I have felt like I didn’t want to participate because of the hexbear participation - and the participation of others stemming from that. For that reason, and no other, I think we should defederate. However, I want to hear what others think. Some counter-arguments would be great.
Please defederate. There’s too much noise here now.
I’m glad you see the problem.
Yeah, I have been attempting to avoid defederating with instances from mine but with HexBear I just kind of had to because they were taking over every popular post.
Edit: I did read OP’s initial exchange and I think OP massively overreacted and the HexBear commenters were largely fine. However, the wider issue still stands which is why I did in my case.
They got that response because of the poor reputation their instance already has, I wasn’t in the mood to engage with them.
Does lemmy not have a block user function where you won’t see their comments? I guess that doesn’t help when you want to wholesale block users from an instance.
I personally haven’t seen anything worth defederating over so far. In any case I usually just scroll past or don’t interact with comments that are inflammatory. However as you’re the admin it’s your call. My only reservation is that we don’t have many contributors as it is.
Also you should have posted your 150 word article anyway.
Not built into the platform, but some apps have it.
Personally I would much prefer the smaller, tight knit group of NZ and NZ-adjacent posters over a swarm of non-NZ users that are posting here because they can’t see the vast majority of posts on lemmy (out of the top 8 servers, there are about 36,000 monthly active users. Of those, about 2/3rds of those users are on servers that have defederated with hexbear.)
My 150 word article would have led to more… discussion - and I just didn’t have it in me to start a conversation like that where there were already aggressive and flippant comments.
That happened to me too. I came in yesterday with something to say, and when I saw that some of the first people in there were making overly simplistic statements using (problematically class-based) American insults with hexbear-specific spelling, I just didn’t want to post in there.
They have a full on culture of dogpiling/bullying using in-group memes and it gets overwhelming.
I say this as someone who a) likes the name Papakangahorohoro and b) thinks the locals should thank their lucky stars that it’s not named after a local councillor’s friend’s uncle like so many new development streets are.
I say this as someone who a) likes the name Papakangahorohoro and b) thinks the locals should thank their lucky stars that it’s not named after a local councillor’s friend’s uncle like so many new development streets are.
Oh boy, I hate reading history and learning about how many towns used to be called something else, but some government promised a person if they did a thing they could have a town named after them.
I agree - imo a smaller but friendlier group who are here in good faith is preferable.
While I do enjoy the smaller community of the NZ instance currently, if it ever grows larger I think you’ll be facing similar challenges with users as can be seen with the NZ subreddit on reddit. Such is the nature of social media. So it’s worth thinking about how to manage it in the future is what I’m saying, I guess.
Lemmy 100% needs better mod tools. And user tools for that matter. Users being unable to block an instance is a pretty big hole.
Some lemmy instances are trying to foster a friendly community, and really the only tool we have for this so far is to defederate until tools improve.
Here’s my view. Lemmy.nz is intended for an NZ audience. Hexbear has been defederated from 5 of the top 8 largest instances. This is problematic for us, as their All is much more likely to show lemmy.nz posts than All on other instances. It starts to feel like we’re being brigaded, even though we aren’t, because their instance is the 10th largest Lemmy instance and yet they don’t see most Lemmy posts (but they do see ours).
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that when instance like hexbear is defederated, they can still see your posts, they can even comment and vote on them. You just don’t see it anymore. They would have to defederate on their side too, to completely block it.
they can still see your posts, they can even comment and vote on them. You just don’t see it anymore.
This would actually be ideal, as long as their downvotes don’t get federated back to us.
Hexbear doesnt have downvotes
That’s always a recipe for disaster.
You’re on kbin.social, so I’m gonna make some assumptions about how it works, because I really only have a decent understanding of lemmy - though I’m assuming this is how other activitypub federated services work too.
While it may seem like you (on kbin.social) are replying to this post (on lemmy.nz), that is not the case. You server has a copy of the reply and all the other posts and comments. When you comment, it gets posted to the kbin.social community (magazine?) called [email protected].
Behind the scenes, your server will syncronise your copy with the official lemmy.nz copy.
A user on (say) lemmy.world will also have a copy on their server. Your server will not send your comment directly there, rather it sends it to the only source of truth (the community host server), then the host server will send it out to all servers where there is a subscriber.
By defederating, they will no longer get any updates for any lemmy.nz communities, but will still see their own comments (and other users on their server will see them).
Honestly, I’m not sure what happens when e.g. a lemmy.nz user posts to lemmy.ml who are one of the few large servers still federated with hexbear - do the comments go to hexbear? Not sure. Do hexbear comments made to lemmy.ml federate back to lemmy.nz? Again, not sure (I suspect not).
If you’re getting that worked up about mild non-offensive inane comments I hate to imagine how worked up you get using a self-checkout machine. Chill out.
Once again, the issue is that none of them actually participated meaningfully in the discussion, just turned the thread into one big circle jerk.
None of the individual comments were particularly bad, it’s the overall effect that is the issue.
the overall effect he’s objecting to is a general anti-racist sentiment, just to clarify that for everyone
Not wanting to learn a tounge twister of a word to call an ambulance is racist? Or spell it out to every single time you give your address?
It would be an ongoing hassle for the residents.
No it isn’t. It’s not hard to remember or say.
I’m sure there’s things I find easy to remember that you would struggle with.
Weird claim since you seem to repeat things a lot, including repeating things I’ve said back to me. You talk exactly like the guy we’ve had an issue with on Lemmy.ml who keeps making alts with AI profile pics.
you don’t know the word papa? kangaroo? horohoro is two sounds repeated once.
you’re either the laziest or stupidest person in the world. my vote is both.
or just a run of the mill, boring as fuck racist. I guess that’s actually my vote as you are entirely unimpressive and mediocre, not even the best at being stupid or lazy
kangaroo
Hi, not trying to start a fight but thought you might be interested; “kangaroo” has no relevance here.
It’s ka-nga: “ka” - like the English word “car” but without the R - and “nga” which also rhymes with car and has a soft g like in the English word “sing”, not a hard g like in “kangaroo.”
Nga might be a bit harder for you, but all kiwis know how to pronounce it, it’s the nga in common names like Ngaire and Ngati and “Tutira Mai Nga Iwi”.
Ty!
Would you be happy spelling that out every single time you need to give your address to someone?
And what’s with the attitude?
He’s angrily eating muffins. It’s the only attitude he has. Just block him
Why are you using a ThisPersonDoesNotExist avi 😨
He’s definitely angry.
i’ve spelled it like five times now. oh god the horror my hands are falling off.
“what’s with the attitude”
is there a sealion emoji easily accessible?
how would you like to spell “Acacia Avenue” if you called it papakangahorohoro?
Dude, you need to go AFK for a bit I think, you’re way too wound up about this.
Holy shit dude, have you used one?
Please place item in bagging area. Are you using your own bags? [Yes]. Please wait for staff member to come over and give you permission to use your own bags. Would you like a receipt? [No]. Please take this 30 centimetre long piece of receipt paper that isn’t a receipt, it’s just printed with stuff you don’t want.
I don’t think it’s justified getting all upset about a few comments, but if I saw an article about someone getting arrested for smashing a self-checkout machine then I’d assume the machine probably deserved it.
They’re beyond annoying for sure, but I use them every chance I get. My grocery bill has gone way down since I’ve learned how to use self checkout… properly.
Don’t forget that Countdown is trialling video surveliance at them… as if those places don’t make you feel like enough of a criminal as it is.
It’s not like I put the chocolate bar in my pocket while I was standing at the self-checkout? Obviously I did that before going to the place with all the staff.
And who’s gonna watch the video surveilance to make sure I didn’t scan my kumara in as onions?
It constantly thinks I’ve placed an improper amount of weight and I’m stealing. As if I’d steal at the most watched area of the store like a chump. And the attendant has to come over four times!
I have actually abandoned my shopping and walked out because of one of those things.
I would not support defederation based on this exchange. Surely the bar must be high for such an action?
Honestly if someone wants to point out how awful Hexbear is, op posted some poor examples.
If you spend a little time there you’ll see things more along the lines of “you’re gonna get the wall when we start the revolution” with a ton of upvotes.
Fair enough, I appreciate the civil response.
There is a big difference in attitude, huh? I don’t care so much about who was wrong/right in that thread but aggressively namecalling and strawmanning people over something as irrelevant as the name of a street is just toxic behaviour.
There was a huge difference in the tone of conversation before and after dave’s temporary defederating, both on the topic of defederating, and the discussion that kicked all this off.
Now there’s only two people calling me racist.
As an afterthought, perhaps if they want to stop being defederated by instances they should have a good long think about how they interact with other communities. Shitposting can be fun but it’s stupid and rude when you’re entering someone else’s space.
Yes, we need to defederate from hexbear badly. They’re terrorists over there.
terrorists??!? Do you know what that word means? Need a source desperately for that one.
