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Back in the old days when a software contains these crap, considered as adware/malware and people get their pitchforks.
Now: its normal.
So as far as i know, firefox is the only mayor browser not based on chromium. Also, firefox is dependent on google’s funding because of a search engine exclisivity deal. So my understanding is that, if google decides to kill firefox, they could easily do that. Well, what then? Is there any other browser left wich similar features that would be untouchable by google?
You have to decide for yourself if those browsers have the features you need, but just for your interest, other non-chromium browsers are Ladybird, NetSurf, Flow, Pale Moon, Basilisk and K-Meleon.
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Honestly, I’ll give credit to Apple for pushing forward JXL on webkit and pushing back against Chromium team’s dominance and Mozilla team’s apathetic stance in the browser space. While I appreciate Mozilla’s stance on Manifest V3 and several other issues, I can’t help but hope for more development from the Servo project.
We will have to maintain a Chromium fork with their trackers removed, if it comes to that.
Likely Google won’t do anything until or unless the bulk of the public moves off of Chrome over this.
Like Vivaldi or Brave?
awkward glances around
Yes…
They couldn’t kill Firefox without having the US government come down on them for monopoly. Which the government is already looking at https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/tech/doj-google-lawsuit/index.html , so it’s not likely Google will risk it even further by shitting down funding to Firefox. Pretty sure they’ll point at Firefox to claim they’re not a monopoly.
So the lawsuit appears to be looking at Google as a search engine monopoly, not web browser, right? And if I’m understanding this right, assuming this lawsuit goes anywhere, it would actually incentivize Google to pull funding from Firefox to no longer support that search engine exclusivity deal.
Google still benefits from having Firefox around, so that they can maintain less of an appearance of a monopoly in the browser space. Whatever way they fund Firefox, it’s still to their benefit to do so.
This is pretty much the same situation as when Apple faced bankruptcy a while back and Microsoft essentially bailed them out.
Having an effective monopoly is better than a literal one for legal reasons
We need to extend our laws to effective monopolies too, fuck this shit
This should be the top comment, and I’m going to come back to view the replies. I can’t personally think of any realistic alternatives. Someone further down posted a link to an article about the US investigating Google for a search engine monopoly, but I’m not sure how large a role that would factor into web browsers.
Fun fact, Firefox used to be called… Netscape… Yeah… Let’s see how many miklenials are in here!
I’ve just browsed with Netscape. But did not know this fact.
I’ve been corrected that it is a branch off of, not a direct evolution of, Netscape.
And remember what happened when Microsoft tried to kill Netscape? That needs to happen again, but against Google.
Sort of. Netscape released the program’s source code and Firefox used that as a base, but it wasn’t like they took Netscape and just changed the name to Firefox like your comment implies. They were competing browsers for a while.
Fair enough. My bad.
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Edge switched to chromium in 2020…
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But there are a few specific hardware configurations and specialized jobs that Linux doesn’t work for, therefore nobody should use it!
Why not be happy both OS options exist? Both have a place and a use and in various ways an ease of use
Woosh…
That’s the point. We want options for OSs to exist, instead of one company monopolizing the entire market.
Linux with 100% market share can’t monopolize the entire market because it doesn’t have a centralized distro
You see similar to Google with Redhat/Canonical. If everyone was with them then it would be a problem
Linux with 100% marketshare means nothing.
GPL is designed to protect developer rights, not user rights.
If google packaged your linux distro and sold it through the play store bundled with their own apps and sandboxed everything and called it chromeOS, your rights would not be any better protected.
Security and privacy involves users making informed choices to protect themselves, full stop.
And as long as Chrome OS didn’t have majority market share it would be fine
What use is there for the others?
Any of thousands of people can say this but i don’t see it in the comments below so: I’ve been using a Linux Mint / Windows dual boot system for over 10 years and love it. I think a lot of people see Linux as highly technical, but versions like Mint and Ubuntu are more carefree than Windows nowadays.
Sure but Google also uses tons of open source - android is built on the linux kernel, and even chrome is or is based on open source:
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Yay for Firefox
Riiiight, because Google wasn’t doing sneaky tracking shit leading up to this. This time, they’ll surely switch, all dozens of them, and a couple might even use Firefox. woohoo
Reality: https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share
Someone reply to me saying they just switched to make this a perfect internet circlejerk.
I honestly don’t get why people think chromium browsers are good, for example Firefox in my use case is far faster than chrome… by a long shot. Also if you want to argue…
something about the way it [chrome] handles memory isolation means i get fewer blue screens at work with all my bloated browser tools loaded at the same time. I have to have ~15 tabs open. It is not my laptop, so I cant go around experimenting with plugins much.
then again who gives a flying fart if chrome tracks me while i use the same internal browser tools day in and day out?
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That was also my experience with Firefox. I tried it one time because I kept hearing it was better than chrome, and then the absolute first thing I noticed is that they can’t get tab dragging right.
I don’t care how much more “private” it is than chrome. If you can’t even get the first impression on absolute basic UI elements right, I simply have no faith in your browser
Maybe I’ll use Firefox when it matures a bit
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Mostly for increased privacy but also additional features. Firefox and it’s forks are usually relatively limited in feature set.
Speed isn’t a problem on any of them for me.
I just switched my internet off!
What’s your thoughts on Orion? It’s weirdly niche, but has been killer for me.
Orion is not open source so that’s a no. There is no way to know that what they tell us is true. If they free their code it might become my go to browser as well.
There is a way to tell - just check the binary. Actually, you need to check binaries of open source apps as well.
Check the binary for current outgoing traffic? Sure but instant traffic is not the only way to be tracked, and it is particularly difficult to get an overview for a browser.
A open source project is automatically safer to use. Sure, any binary can be injected with crap but in a closed source app there is really no way to know anything for sure.
The binary is your source. And it’s THE ONLY source of truth.
Sure the binary is what I run, but I am not following what your point is. If you are paranoid about binaries from an open source project, just compile it yourself. It’s easy. That’s just not an argument against open source.
downvoted for stating facts. I can only give you one updoot brother, you’re the hero we need.
I used chrome since it was launched and this summer I switched to Firefox on all devices.
Sometimes there is a proverbial straw to break a camel’s back.
I mean, for some percentage of users this will be it. Will it be a significant share of Chrome users? Probably not, but it just means those of us who got people to switch to Firefox in the 00’s and Chrome in the early 10’s need to be as vigorous with getting people off Chrome now.
Unironically, yeah, this is the nail in the coffin for me.
But think about it. You’re talking on Lemmy - currently a niche messaging board with a tech focused audience. I don’t think you’d count as the average Chrome user. Most people won’t hear about this or if they do, won’t care.
‘Average user’ just means all traits proportionally blended together, right? Lemmy users are not a huge part of the internet, but our contribution to the ‘average’ is just a big as any other person; and our opinions and knowledge and behaviour does matter. Some might argue that the opinions of tech-focused people matter more because they are more likely to influence other people about tech decisions.
So yeah, we’re a niche group - but the discussion and sharing of ideas is important.
Sounds like they really want people to use Firefox!
They fund Mozilla a ton on purpose. They want a small subset of people to use Firefox. It keeps them from the monopoly investigations
I knew about that. They also pay to be the default search engine on Firefox.
But my joke was that these changes make it seem like they don’t want people to use Chrome anymore and switch to Firefox instead. If users knew about this stuff and understood it, Firefox would bounce back.
I have already begun to move from Google services.
Look for other large corporations to continue this trend: offer a product to the masses for free, wait until you have little to no competitors and dominate in market share, then put it behind a pay wall or strongarm changes that most of the population doesn’t understand. Oracle did it with Java, knowing most companies were too invested to look for alternatives, and now Google is doing it with their Chrome baked-in privacy changes and ad crackdown.
I expect to see more of this trend from “free” services as the people continue to wake up and take their personal data seriously. We know the government(s) won’t do a thing to change the status quo, and I have no idea what else to do other than cry into my ramen and binge watch the death of a planet in 4K!
Unfortunately, the rich keep scarcity high to ensure they not only make the most money, but they can use less money to buy favors from those with less. Man greed sucks…
It’s even more insidious when you look at the shit Amazon does, im almost certain they hyper-aggressively track the popularity of products not made by them, ones that are made by small companies (and even individuals in some cases) for the sole purpose of seeing what’s popular with the masses and then they make their own shitty version of said product followed by undercutting the original products cost significantly. And when people go to search they of course put their shit product at the top of the search page so that’s the one the unaware will always buy. It’s kind of a genius business model if we are being honest, if you’re an absolute shit stain that completely lacks morals that is. I just can’t believe they’ve been allowed to do this for so long under the radar because I feel like I never hear people talk about that particular scummy tactic they use.
If users knew about this stuff and understood it, Firefox would bounce back.
I wish that were true. But how long have companies like Google and Meta been tracking people? Ask anyone on the street if they think Google and Meta know everything about them and they’ll say “yes but I don’t care” or “yes but it’s unavoidable”. There’s just no way people don’t know by now what incredibly invasive corporations they are. They just don’t care.
I do think they know these companies are invasive, but they don’t fully understand the ramifications of it, nor do they care to.
While I agree at some level, most users aren’t like you or me. They are my mom, my boss, my mailman. They only care about convenience, and understanding even the difference between browsers is one thing, let alone why they should use a different one. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s likely to change. If it was, Facebook wouldn’t exist, if those people cared about their online privacy they wouldn’t use the platform, but here we are
Yeah, people knew enough to ditch IE for Firefox, but I think Google’s marketing convinced everybody that Chrome was the best. Most people tell me they use Chrome because it’s the fastest.
I made the switch a few weeks ago. While the transition was a little inconvenient, I got everything set up in maybe an hour or two. Performance was wacky for a few hours after that, but it’s settled now for my purposes.
You definitely have to finagle the browser with add-ons and other about:config things to make it work for you, but after that yeah I can say I prefer Firefox over Chrome!
Now I just need to deGoogle everything else…
Check out Vivaldi
I actually never stopped using Firefox. I tried Chrome/Chromium on and off since it came out in 2008, but I never understood the appeal. Chrome looks more minimal, but it always ran like crap on Linux and Mac for me. Was it better on Windows or something? The constant memes about Chrome’s RAM and CPU usage would lead me to believe it isn’t.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Unlike the glitzy front-page Google blog post that the redesign got, the big ad platform launch announcement is tucked away on the privacysandbox.com page.
The blog post says the ad platform is hitting “general availability” today, meaning it has rolled out to most Chrome users.
This has been a long time coming, with the APIs rolling out about a month ago and a million incremental steps in the beta and dev builds, but now the deed is finally done.
Users should see a pop-up when they start up Chrome soon, informing them that an “ad privacy” feature has been rolled out to them and enabled.
That’s actually what started this whole process: Apple dealt a giant blow to Google’s core revenue stream when it blocked third-party cookies in Safari in 2020.
Google says it will block third-party cookies in the second half of 2024—presumably after it makes sure the “Privacy Sandbox” will allow it to keep its profits up.
The original article contains 588 words, the summary contains 159 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
good bot, keep it up!
Firefox has been my go-to, but I’ve left Chrome installed just to have on hand incase some website fuckiness could be solved with a browser change.
Naw. It’s not worthy of staying around even for that. Time to completely scrub my devices of google.
Nah, I use Edge for that. Chrome is only for work for me, but I think I’m going to migrate to another Chromium-based browser for that.
I’ve been doing similar; been using Firefox, but Chrome is installed for its browser-wide automatic captioning. Not something I need often, but I rely on it for the occasional remote meeting here and there. I’m sure free automatic captioning applications exist for my operating system, but I’d have to actually test each one to see if they actually work, and it’s just been so convenient keeping Google’s around.
(Speaking of which, if anybody happens to have recommendations for free automatic captioning software that works on Ubuntu, I seem to be in the market…)
Feeling the same, it’s surprising how many companies are just leaning towards screwing users for a few more pennies on the dollar. Eventually, Google with be the next AOL.
Eventually, Google with be the next AOL.
I am anti-google all day, but that’s ridiculous.
Just need their Time-Warner to put the last nail in the coffin
We can only pray, the ghouls.
I suggest to use chromium as the backup “in case a webpage doesn’t work on Firefox” browser. All the compatibility but no telemetry.
But why use chromium or any chromium based browser since google disabled ad blocking plug-ins?
I suggest it as the backup browser. Use Firefox and if you need to open something that only works on chrome, I’d rather use chromium, so Google doesn’t rape your computer when trying to use the internet.
Eh, did they? I’m sure I still have Ublock Origin on the work browser, which is Chrome.
just fyi, when Mv3 (at least googles version of it) will completely replace Mv2 … uBO or for that matter any content/ad-blocker might not be able to perform as well on chrome based browsers.
I use brave which is a chromium browser with all the tracking stuff turned off and a few ad blockers baked in. It also has some vpn and crypto wallet stuff built in but it’s not in your face so you can just ignore it.
This ad platform shouldn’t affect brave right? Should just be another thing the brave team are able to automatically switch off when the browser updates?
Firefox is the only web browser you should be using. Firefox.
Brave, Edge, Opera, only contribute to the Google monopoly, even though you are not using directly Chrome.
This should tell you all you need to know about the Brave browser. tl;dr it’s a piece of shit scummy software helmed by a piece of shit scummy CEO. Just use Firefox.
I use Firefox, but given the fact that Chrome and its variants control so much of the browser space and Firefox so little… I wonder how long until Firefox has until it is rendered useless.
As ironic as this sounds, Google can’t let Firefox die because then it would become a monopoly
Firefox is too small for them to care, the only browser with a larger share is Safari (Webkit).
I wonder how long until Firefox has until it is rendered useless.
I have been hearing about FFs imminent demise for about 20 years now…
It will likely never die entirely, but it’s what… less 10% of its peak market share back in 2010?
And?
What does that matter?
This is not a popularity contest.
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No, it isn’t.
I have been hearing this shit for 20 years.
Google pays mozilla to keep it alive so they can side step anti-trust laws.
I hate to break it to you but google already dominate the web.
FF is not going anywhere.
You can just disable it when it pops up. I hope it continues to warn new users when first setting it up.
Yes, it seems to be trendy to use this as a reason to switch to Firefox, but surely you can just totally disable this new feature in Chrome? The article even tells you how to do this. I guess people are switching as a protest?
It’s a new feature in the testing phase. Once it’s proven to work correctly (for Google), the option to disable it will be taken away.
Interesting. Do you have a source for that, please?
It’s how Google rolls out new features all the time.
First they ask you. Then it will become a opt-out flag. Then maintaining the switch option will be too much work and it will disappear.
Honestly what should concern you is that this is the way Chrome is going, not that you are allowed to enjoy it your own way for a little while more.
nuked that shit from my machine.
only going to use it inside a VM now for testing purposes
I should have never left Firefox when chrome came out. Its good to be back. Especially before any of this happened.
Now that Firefox is getting in-page translation capability, Chrome does not offer any features I am missing anymore. As long as they don’t start performance wars, like the shit that happened with Youtube a while ago, I’ll be fine
Wait really? Is it on the stable version or do I need to install beta/nightly?
You can read up on it here https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/features/translate/
Thanks, didn’t realize it’s an add-on. Much better because now I can use it on Librewolf. :D
you can also set
browser.translations.enableto true in about:config for full-page translations. it’s kinda slow and the languages are limited compared to google translate, but other than that it’s fine. also, it works offline if you install the languages https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/website-translationOffline translation, nice. I’m gonna miss Opera GX stylish theme but I’m ready to ditch Chromium-based browser again, at least on desktop :D
Edit: I’be checked the add-on, unfortunately my mother language and other popular languages are not supported yet.
That’s fantastic if the quality is good. I only use chrome now for pages purely in Japanese that I need to deal with and can’t properly read in full yet (which, living in Japan, is a fair few, heh). EDIT: Bah, no Japanese support. Oh well; some day.
Is this just for chrome,or is it on all chromium browsers? Im running bromite,but considering going back to Firefox.
Chromium contains it. Up to the browser bundling it how they configure/patch it.
Well damn. Any recommendations for a ff mobile app?
Firefox for Android.
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The official Firefox on Android is all there is.
iOS only has WebKit (for now).
I should have specified,I meant open source version/app,or official. I prefer open source,but at one time fdroid had several versions,but I’m not against the stock app. I’ve been ootl for a while on what’s up with ff.
I use Mull these days.
No, it’s not in Vivaldi
Firefox gets like 90% of its revenue from Google.
Keep Firefox independent and donate: https://donate.mozilla.org/en-US/?form=donate
But donating your money can not make firefox independent.It will only make firefox more revenue.
Google wants to keep mozilla afloat to stay out of anti-competitive allegations.
And the money won’t go to Firefox, but Mozilla’s other projects.
If mozilla gets market share, google will defund them. That mozilla have a money will help.
Also mozilla’s other projects are also good ;)
Some of Mozilla’s other projects are good, iirc there was a journalist a few years ago who chronicled how Mozilla had donated a lot of money to other charities unrelated to it’s goal rather than reinvesting in the business so that it can try to ween off of Google reliance.
Also big CEO wallets.
Nothing in comparison to others but there is some special pay going.But it’s definitely the lesser of the evils.
Please, everyone, stop using Chrome. This is an easy vote with your wallet that doesn’t even require your wallet.
Complacency means the internet gets worse, ads get worse, nickel and diming gets worse. It’s the easiest chance to take a stand you’ll ever have.
I’m fairly confident no one here is using Chrome.
I am …
I use it at work because of it has the best dev tools. Although edge is pretty much the same so I could use that, but not much of an ethical upgrade.
I use it at work because of it has the best dev tools.
Every Chromium fork has those same tools.
I know that. I acknowledged that in the next sentence when I talked about edge.
But it still wouldn’t stop me from using chrome because I need to test with it. It’s what most of our end users use. I’m not about to install Vivaldi or something when we don’t even support it, and none of our users use it.
Okay so I’m just not sure what your point is then.
Serious question: let’s say I continue using Chrome and Privacy Sandbox becomes the norm. How does my internet experience get worse?
One key change in the short term is the Topics API. This is the replacement for 3rd-party cookies in Privacy Sandbox. Basically, it allows sites to query your browser directly about what topics you enjoy, and Chrome will respond with topics based on analysis of your browsing history to allow for targeted ads. If it seems strange that a new “privacy” feature is still serving up data about you for targeted ads – it is. And in fact, a lot of the proposed changes potentially just give Google more sway to act as a middleman, which ultimately gives them more data.
Will your experience change immediately? Likely not, but as with many things in this space, it’s about the dangers of the path and its longer term implications, specifically here about corporate controls and softening the definition of “privacy”.
Here’s a decent overview with more far more details.
I know what the Topics API does. I’m asking for a concrete example of exactly how it’s going to make my internet experience worse. (That Register article doesn’t provide one.)
Losing privacy makes your internet experience worse. That seems pretty clear to me, but if you don’t care about corporations being better suited to target ads to you, then I don’t think anyone would be able to convince you that these changes are bad.
I’d love to debate this with you properly but I’ve got COVID right now and don’t have the energy to put together a decent response, sorry. Basically I just don’t see how the specific features in the new Chrome build let advertisers do anything they can’t already do. I don’t see how they contribute to ads getting worse, or where “nickel and diming” comes into it.
I already use Firefox for everything that’s not literally for my D&D stuff. Because some relevant fan sites don’t display properly on Firefox for some stupid reason. That’s it. So even if they manage to get past my blockers, they literally are telling me nothing I will ever care about because I already have/know where to get any relevant thing those ads might be shilling, and the rest is all irrelevant noise.
Same, though those D&D websites work in Brave with the usual blockers turned on (uBlock + Brave’s blockers), so maybe its an engine thing?
