I’ve noticed a lot of posts asking how we’re going to vote, and people coming in trying to shame people for not voting for Biden, or any candidate in the general election at all.
So I’m curious and, asking in good faith, want to know - what will make you stop voting for Biden?
As long as someone more effective and observably better than Trump is running and polling well they have your vote?
Edit: apparently the above question was in bad faith. I thought it was TOO charitable to the completely spineless sentiment in the comment I was replying to, but I guess I forgot that anything less than complete capitulation before the
bloo no matter whoo crowd is bad faith.
Actually, you’re not too far off. You did put words in my mouth, but you’re basically correct.
Didn’t mean to put words in your mouth, just trying to capture how your position plays out in practice because I prefer to argue based on concrete reality instead of vague principles.
My issue with your position is that the American political establishment has been bilaterally inching closer and closer to embracing fascism, with both Republicans and Democrats rallying around the flag and collaborating in every imperialist project. The differences between the parties amount to genocide of the brown, queer, and poor now, vs genocide of the brown, queer, and poor later (and with a human face). Repeatedly voting for the lesser evil is what brought us into this position, because the only representation those minority groups have ever had is a party that didn’t truly make any progress for them except when politically convenient, and has held them hostage with the same “lesser evil” logic. When these vulnerable groups are held hostage, no progress can be made by moving to the left, because too many people are too scared to rock the boat and try an actual progressive option. Because of the broken electoral system, and the inherently flawed nature of democracy under capitalism, participating in democracy as the only means of political action is a dead end and nothing but a waste of energy.
Instead, what I, and many others in this site, believe is in the participation in the electoral process only as a means of legitimizing the other side of political struggle which takes place on the streets. Mutual aid, agitation, strikes, and other forms of political action building toward a socialist revolution is the only path toward social and economic justice. There’s already been a century of leftists trying to entry their way into American political institutions through elections, and if we’ve achieved any progress at all the progress is swiftly dismantled in times of economic crisis in favor of privatization and reactionary policies. The time for lesser evilism has passed a long time ago.
You said
Make it convenient, then. What you and others already believe does exactly that:
I don’t think participation in the electoral process is mutually exclusive with mutual aid, agitation, strikes, and other forms of political action. Moreover, as the far right has demonstrated quite convincingly, it is easier to commandeer what already exists than to invent it anew. I believe support of political leaders would make it easier to facilitate social and economic justice, at least in the United States. But it’s not the only method that matters, and, again as the far right has demonstrated, not even the most important one.
It actually bothers me a lot that leftists don’t really have large networks of parallel institutions like the right does…
Not all of it though (yet). I mean, before the Great Depression, social security didn’t exist. It’s still around even has it has come under attack in these times of manufactured (it’s always manufactured) economic crisis. So, why has that one stuck around while others have fallen away? What about progressive or socialist policies in other countries that have stood the test of time? How did their development progress over time such that they gained staying power?
These questions are more important and interesting to me than “How do we dismantle and rebuild everything”.
And if we have to start with Joe Biden vs Trump, then god damn it, Biden it is. And we’ll work from where we are and try to get where we want to go.
Voting for Democrats no matter what does the opposite! You’re telling them that they can keep doing what they’re currently doing, passively accept Palestinian genocide (not to mention trans genocide at home), because you’re too scared of the stick to stop falling for the carrot. The only way we can “make it convenient” for Democrats to cede to our demands is to withhold our support unless they earn it with actual progressive policies. And that is especially true in times of crisis like now, because they need every vote they can get. Folding early and telling them we’ll vote for them no matter what is no way to wield power, it’s actually just giving up what little power we have.
That’s true, and normally I don’t get mad at people for voting for Dems for this exact reason, you can definitely do multiple things at once. But if participation in the electoral process means you’re compromising with a candidate who is actively supporting genocide, it IS mutually exclusive with anything remotely close to a leftist position.
The kind of thing that happens when the FBI blackmails, maligns, or straight up murders them all…
Social Democracy is only allowed to exist in the interim period between crises of capitalism. It is, objectively and demonstrably, the moderate wing of fascism because without failure every social democratic party will side with fascists before they side with communists once their precarious state of being is threatened. Quoting Stalin from Concerning the International Situation,
So my conclusion is, if you wanna be a well behaved little voter and keep settling for genocidal imperialists, go ahead, keep telling Dems that Palestinian lives are not worth enough to change their policy positions at all. After all, we might get someone even scarier if we don’t :vote:, someone who doesn’t respect the norms!
stfu redditor
Death to America