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tweet by amtrak ben: i think we should build high speed rail next to freeways only because it would make drivers feel like complete losers all the time
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You can experience this in multiple parts of Los Angeles. Don’t tell anyone. It’s fucking glorious.
no but that’s the best part: you SHOULD tell everyone, the more people using the trains the higher frequency you get and if there’s enough demand you get higher speed services too!
We have the opposite problem in Atlanta. The Marta train only goes about 40mph, so even in pretty heavy traffic, cars will be flying past it. It’s fucking ridiculous they don’t make it faster.
MARTA trains hit at least 70 between e.g. Arts Center and Lindbergh or Buckhead and Medical Center (among other segments). Go stand up front next to the conductor compartment and take a look – there’s a big MPH readout right in the middle of the console that’s easy to see from the door.
(Also, don’t forget that this meme is about high-speed rail (intercity), which is not the same thing a subway system like MARTA (intracity).)
The segment between Perimeter mall and Buckhead that goes between the lanes of hwy 400 is where I always see traffic zipping past it.
This is the case in Germany, and it’s glorious. The fastest people on the Autobahn drive around 200 km/h, whereas the trains sometimes travel at 320 km/h. Always fun to see the slow cars!
I don’t know if Deutsche Bahn is the best example of this. ICE’s maximum speed only means you usually end up leaving when you are supposed to be arriving.
Well, Deutsche Bahn is the place where I experience exactly what the meme is suggesting. Should I have mentioned another rail service I don’t know and haven’t experienced?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2023/oct/08/german-train-travel-deutsche-bahn-kafka explains it better than I could in a single comment. Searching for “Verzögerungen im Betriebsablauf” will give you more examples of the mess Deutsche Bahn’s operations are.
I know that the delays are a mess. But I’ll ask again: why should I talk about some different rail service that I have never used instead of the one I have used?
It’s not like the trains don’t drive at high speeds due to the delays. I sat in them and experienced what the meme describes. And now I’m not supposed to mention it as an example because of train delays? What?
Stuttgart - Köln is one of the connections that go max speed, and it really is glorious.
But I don’t think there’s actually that many places the ICE can go that fast, is there?
Not a whole lot, then. But then again, even 160km/h is faster than the average speed you’d travel at on the Autobahn
I posted this comment already elsewhere in this thread, but lemme quote myself:
The ICE’s max speed depends on model and variies from 250km/h to 300km/h. These speeds can be reached on:
- Hannover-Würzburg (280km/h)
- Mannheim-Stuttgart (280km/h)
- Oebisfelde-Berlin (250km/h)
- Siegburg-Frankfurt (300km/h)
- Köln-Düren (250km/h)
- Rastatt-Offenburg & Schliengen-Haltingen (250km/h)
- Nürnberg-Ingolstadt (300km/h)
- Ebensfeld-Leipzig/Halle (300km/h)
- Wendlingen-Ulm (250km/h)
There are more of these tracks currently under construction:
- Stuttgart-Wendlingen (250km/h)
- Bashaide-Rastatt (250km/h)
And many more are currently in the planning stage:
- Hamm-Bielefeld (300km/h)
- Oebisfelde-Berlin (300km/h)
- Ulm-Augsburg (300km/h)
- Gelnhausen-Fulda (250km/h)
- Frankfurt-Mannhein (300km/h)
- Bielefeld-Hannover (300km/h)
- Nürnberg-Würzburg (300km/h)
god, driving at 200km/h is so insane
I’m sure newer cars are much better at it, but 150 is already scary enough in my 2012 model. It doesn’t handle bumps well at 130, I don’t want to test fate.
It’s not a question of age, but of the car model. Any german upper middle class car from (at least) the 80s onwards was able to comfortably go 180–200 km/h, upper class > 200 km/h, lower middle class 160–200, smaller cars provide an adventurous driving experience at 150 km/h.
There shouldn’t be bumps on the autobahn.
Ya, I also wish those slowpokes would get out of my way…
No, driving a moving truck (that’s small enough to not full under the separate speed limit for trucks) at 200km/h is insane. Seen that before ^^
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Sometimes? How about this decade old French record?
Do all trains in France always drive that fast? If not it’s also sometimes, so…
German car-brainers: „Mein Auto kann do 350 km/h, und it is legal“
“I’m not attending your funeral”
Still below 570 km/h.
Passenger trains in Germany are capped at 300 km/h
They can go faster but it’s just not worth it regarding maintenance and everything. And the old ICE3s are actually 10 km/h faster than the ICE3neos (330 vs. 320km/h). Siemens would no doubt be happy to build them faster but the network can’t take it, there’s no dedicated high speed rail the ICEs have to contend with cargo trains rumbling over their tracks. Oh and 320/330 isn’t their actual maximum speed that’s just what they’re specced and tested to.
Typical high speed tracks aren’t shared with cargo trains. Frankfurt-Siegburg for example is only usable by high speed passenger trains.
And regarding the max speed, I’d suggest to look at china. The chinese railways run the Siemens Velaro CN, which is the local version of the Velaro D (DB Br407) at 380km/h in regular use.
Glorious
This modification with perpendicular seats in carriage and on-demand open is used on line 4, where this probably was filmed.
All other lines have parallel seats only and open all doors on platforms.
It doesn’t need to go high speed, I was in a train a few years ago and the conductor on the loud speaker said “if you look on your left, you will be happy to be in a train and not stuck in a traffic jam.” Everyone looked and the highway was completely stuck. Really Really long traffic jam. Everyone started giggling.
I wish the train was affordable
Same. It’s crazy that taking a car, with all the waste that implies, is somehow the cheaper option in some reasons.
The one thing Germany did right in the last like 20 years: Deutschlandticket. One ticket, 49€ per month, regional/local public transport for all of Germany. I can literally take a bus from my apartment to the train station, hop on an RE train and go wherever I want, and then take the local bus in that town.
It doesn’t include long haul highspeed trains, but the regional trains will still get you almost everywhere.
And if you travel a lot and invest in a BahnCard 50, long distance trains are not that expensive anymore. A Flex ICE ticket from Nuremberg to Hamburg will cost you 80€. Fuel will be more expensive. Well, if you buy the ticket a week earlier, you can get it very cheap like 13€.
BC 50 is only a good option if you frequently need to go on short notice – you get 50% of the Flexpreis, but the same Sparpreis offers as the BC 25, which costs about 1/4 of the BC50.
If you are flexible and can stay out of the busy hours you can still get great deals with the BC25.
I recently booked Berlin to Cologne for 2 people first class for 60€ total. On the way back the train had 2h delay, so I got 40€ refund. All in all about 100€ for a two people round trip.
And if someone wants to start the “2h delay!!!1!” talk: It would have been way worse on the highway, which had a major traffic jam for most of the day. Meanwhile I sat comfortably in the restaurant with beer, currywurst and fries (to quote Harald Juhnke: “no appointments and slightly tipsy” 👋)
Germans complain a lot about DB, it’s a national hobby, but compared to France (tgv pricey as fuck!), Britain (basically 0 high speed): ICE is a pretty damn good service at a very affordable price, especially with a BC25. Sure, it should be faster on many stretches where the tracks can’t handle high speed yet, but you really can’t beat the ICE price and comfort level on many travels if you book a bit in advance.
Well, I mean… this is a bit of a “both sides” thing, maybe. We’re in a not too bad spot, but could do much better, both things can be true I think.
A lot of it is valid criticism, and the situation is quite dire and will be for the unforeseeable future now. And just because the UK is a neoliberal hellhole doesn’t mean Germany should become one as well.
But yeah, there’s also a lot of non-constructive complaining, which frequently comes from people who aren’t even using public transport and just want to justify why they have (“”“neeeed”“”) a car.
Ask climate friendly taxing. Plane fuel isn’t taxed right now but trains are.
Go to germany and purchase Deutschland ticket.
Whole germany unlocked.
Yup, unlimited access to public transportation (besides the super fast trains) for 50€/mo. As someone coming from the US, It’s pretty awesome
Frankfurt - Cologne: about twice as fast by train then by car.
Is that the one ICE track where it can actually come near its max speed?
The ICE’s max speed depends on model and variies from 250km/h to 300km/h. These speeds can be reached on:
- Hannover-Würzburg (280km/h)
- Mannheim-Stuttgart (280km/h)
- Oebisfelde-Berlin (250km/h)
- Siegburg-Frankfurt (300km/h)
- Köln-Düren (250km/h)
- Rastatt-Offenburg & Schliengen-Haltingen (250km/h)
- Nürnberg-Ingolstadt (300km/h)
- Ebensfeld-Leipzig/Halle (300km/h)
- Wendlingen-Ulm (250km/h)
There are more of these tracks currently under construction:
- Stuttgart-Wendlingen (250km/h)
- Bashaide-Rastatt (250km/h)
And many more are currently in the planning stage:
- Hamm-Bielefeld (300km/h)
- Oebisfelde-Berlin (300km/h)
- Ulm-Augsburg (300km/h)
- Gelnhausen-Fulda (250km/h)
- Frankfurt-Mannhein (300km/h)
- Bielefeld-Hannover (300km/h)
- Nürnberg-Würzburg (300km/h)
It goes at about 300 km/h on that track.
NEIN!
DOCH!
OH!
There actually was a transportation agency that had an ad campaign oriented around this idea. Basically people in the cars saw the train going by so fast and felt jealous because they were stuck in their cars.
Anyone remember what agency put this on?
I have no idea, but I remember a great ad DB brought out: A picture of cars bumper to bumper in a traffic jam, under it “Bumper to bumper is definitely the right approach. Now safely accelerate to 300km/h”.
Nah because they know it would be close to the same after having to wait for the train to arrive.
It’s close to the same time. So time advantage washes out. What about the free time you get as you don’t have to focus on the road? Then the cheaper costs since you don’t pay gas and insurance (hypothetically assuming this fully replaces cars)
Tell me you’ve never used Amtrak without telling me you’ve never used Amtrak. Waiting on the train is not the part that takes time. There are no security checkpoints or any of the security theater that goes on at airports. You don’t have to arrive 45+ minutes early to a train.
I’ve been on Amtrak before. I also remember it being that there were very specific times you could get on and off, which don’t align with many people’s schedules.
there were very specific times you could get on and off, which don’t align with many people’s schedules.
I’m glad you agree it should be better funded to actually serve the needs of the people who want to use it and offer more trains with more lines.
Driving time is dead time. Train time is time that can be used for reading, napping, watching something on your phone, whatever
I mean waiting for the train to arrive because they are on very exact schedules, so most people won’t be able to get everywhere at the time they need to be.
Just check the schedule and leave at the right time?
But you can’t make that schedule. If you’re running late in a car, there’s nothing wrong. Be late for a train and it’s like being late for a plane. Imagine that every morning trying to get to work.
I spent a few years getting a school bus that only came once a day, I just got to the bus stop on time and it was fine. In most places your urban transport runs at headways of less than 15 minutes, and even down to 90 seconds, missing that isn’t a huge issue.
I had to wake up 2 hours earlier than the kids that got driven in by their parents to make the bus, then I was home later than everyone too. Fun.
End to end travel time is the biggest drawback of public transportation. Getting from my city to the next major city is an 8 min train ride or a 20 min drive. But getting from my home to my friends in that city is easily twice as fast by car.
It’s a huge problem. If you live next to the train station and like to go to a pub right next to your destination’s train station, all is well. But for those who like to visit friends instead of going to the nearest pub, public transportation just kinda falls apart.
My wife wanted to pick up our dog that was staying with me at a friend’s place before coming home from work. Because the friend lives a little bit outside of the major city it would have been a 2h20m train ride for the whole trip. Or 30 min by car.
It’s a huge problem.
It really isn’t. The solution, if it’s even required, is quite simple - just build train stations where people are, and the problem is gone. It’s like good universe “one more line bro” solution, but it’s works in this case.
I’m not even sure what you’re saying by build one where people are… Because that would mean building a train station like every second? But I’m assuming you mean build it in popular places or build more. All of these mean more stops and higher time to arrival.
Getting from my city to the next major city is an 8 min train ride or a 20 min drive.
No it’s not. You’re talking about getting from one part of your metro area to another part of the same metro area. It’s all the same city, regardless of arbitrary jurisdictional boundaries. High-speed rail (what this thread is about) is for traveling between different metro areas that would be hours apart by car.
Anyway, you’re not complaining about rail so much as you’re complaining about poor last-mile connectivity (which is better served by micromobility than transit).
Yeah it’s the question of how do I get from Cincinnati to DC, and how much does it fucking suck. 9 hours of driving or 4 hours on a train. But I’d take similar time on trains to driving because holy fuck does driving across mountains suck.
My brother in Christ, this is the exact reason why we are pushing for better public transportation and reduced car dependency.
We dream of a world where, god forbid your car breaks down, you can make it to work within roughly the same amount of time whether you walk, bike, or take the bus. And this isn’t even a fantasy, this dream is alive and well in The Netherlands, Japan, even fucking Disneyland.
We just need to actually start taking Public Transit seriously in this country so that it can improve.
Not just that, but also the occasional trip that does end up needing a car will be much less annoying with fewer people on the roads
This is what infuriates me on every interstate freeway drive is that Eisenhower didn’t just lay tracks along the median of every intestate. If we had done it then, we’d have an entire network for the most heavily utilized corridors with natural station locations.
It isn’t even about being stuck in traffic, it’s also about the mind-numbing expanse that would be much more enjoyable if I didn’t have to pay attention.
As a California native who has commuted 2hrs a day to work for decades, but got to live in the UK for a year: I was way more productive when I commuted by light rail/subway.
Instead of looking out for aholes looking to break check, cut you off, deny you changing lanes; I was able to respond to emails, make some calls and even have a descent breakfast off the morning truck while sitting in a wifi available seat traveling into London from Gatwick each day. Way less stressful overall.
I’m in Montréal, my commute by subway is slower than by car most of the time.
But I get 20 minutes of walking and fresh air and either watch an episode of TV or read a couple chapters of a book. It’s also consistently the same time every time by subway. Feels much better.
The median would probably be dangerous because of the tendency of automobiles to deroad
My city has had these since 1989-90. In all that time, I have never heard of a car crashing into the tracks.
They essentially would need to expand the median, which would add even more cost to the system I think it would have been worth it, but they would need barriers on both sides of the rail it wouldn’t just be road rail road, it would be road | rail | road
Why do you want to make people feel bad on purpose?
To encourage them to engage in better behaviors when they can
People on driving on highways drive on them either because they need to, rural public transit is non-existent, it is cheaper or long distance transit is shit. They have their reasons and seeing train flying by wont change them unless it makes a better alternative.
You two are in agreement. They want more rail built as a viable alternative to driving. The ‘shame’ factor is just an advertisement for a superior method.
This is just reinventing homo oeconomicus but for transportation. People aren’t rational
what is your preferred strategy for making people make better decisions
Make options better. If two cities are linked by highway and objectively better rail line and majority of people still choose to travel on highway then there is a problem somewhere, but building second train line next to highway wont solve anything.
Otherewise if two cities are connected only with highway, then why how people travelling on it would make worse decision if it was their only option?
carbrains should feel bad. constantly.
You dont want to solve any problem. You want to make people suffer
Suffer how exactly?
I am suffering because you have reminded me that I am a ding dong.
yes, you’ve figured it out. well done.
You dont want to solve any problem.
What problem are you solving by smugly standing “in the middle” and snorting up your own farts here?
I want transportation system to be improved for people’s welldom and without trying to impose any views sacrifiing quality in the process
“See these losers on train? They built 20% longer route only because they wanted to make passagers see losers on highway”
I want transportation system to be improved for people’s welldom
Your persuasion method (which doesn’t even matter since people here already support mass transit) is to be a smug condescending centrist douche.
It’s useless. You’re useless.
You are in a room where everyone already agrees that high speed rail is good.
Someone makes a (very fucking obvious) joke about how high speed rail is so good we should build them next to highways to make carbrains jealous.
You: um actually we shouldn’t try to make people feel bad. Making people jealous is bad policy decision. Doing that would make the train less efficient too.
Everyone else in the room: yes we know you joyless nerd.
I oppose the inital idea of building high speed rail line next to a highway with only goal of making drivers feel bad on purpose as I dont see shitting on a minor group of radicals a meaningful way of helping whole society
What problem are you solving by
build high speed rail next to freeways only because it would make drivers feel like complete losers all the time
?
People suffer from not optimal train route and see it as they drive on a highway
You are seizing on a specific part of a post that was making a joke and fixating on that one thing, which is why people are dunking on you.
Pollution kills 9 million people annually.
We can do both at the same time. I got two hands.
and thousands of ceramics!
“suffer”
Por que no los dos
They’re not people, they’re drivers.
Carbrains go out of their way to make pedestrians and cyclists feel bad on purpose, and society subsidizes their planet-burning nonsense and needlessly plans cities around humoring their personalized pollution machines.
Fuck 'em.
You are stuck on twitter mentality where everyone is radicalized and fights the other side.
You describe people as monsters. Go outside, touch grass, no one kills anyone on purpose. System is problem, not
Carbrains
Carbrain is a systemic issue
Go outside, touch grass, no one kills anyone on purpose.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/legislation-protects-drivers-injure-protesters/index.html
You live in a bubble world where you feel comfortably smug and want to talk down to other people. You are stuck on a Reddit mentality and it disgusts me.
Also, since you smugly (and deepy ignorantly) claimed no one kills anyone on purpose because you’re that high on your own farts in that bubble world of yours, here’s some people that kill on purpose, a lot more than no one. The source should be liberal enough for you to not whine about “bias” either. Maybe.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/legislation-protects-drivers-injure-protesters/index.html
is outdated
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/protections-for-drivers-who-hit-protesters-didnt-pass/
except Oklahoma
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/22/us/oklahoma-law-drivers-protesters/index.html
You live in a bubble world where you feel comfortably smug and want to talk down to other people. You are stuck on a Reddit mentality and it disgusts me.
Its my perspective on you
Also, since you smugly (and deepy ignorantly) claimed no one kills anyone on purpose because you’re that high on your own farts in that bubble world of yours, here’s some people that kill on purpose, a lot more than no one. The source should be liberal enough for you to not whine about “bias” either. Maybe. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/hate-incidents
Its easy to find on internet people killing in US.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=shooting&t=fpas&iar=news&ia=news
Ultimate measure of safety is percieved personal safety. I have to admit I didnt know situation in US is so bad with over half of people feeling unsafe
https://www.newsweek.com/young-americans-most-likely-feel-unsafe-daily-basis-poll-1728660
As I live in a country where 13% feel unsafe
https://www.britishpoles.uk/do-poles-feel-safe-in-their-country/
Realistically speaking ordinary people probably dont encounter agression on daily basis as they run errand, but violent acts happen more often so more people feel unsafe. Ordinary people dont kill for sure
Carbrains go out of their way to make pedestrians and cyclists feel bad on purpose, and society subsidizes their planet-burning nonsense and needlessly plans cities around humoring their personalized pollution machines. Fuck 'em.
I still disagree with your view of drivers on a highway
Car brain is salty
All of those words and you’re still a centrist douche that is preaching “civility” to people here while being playing the part of a smug condescending asshole.
If you want a PPB presentation you’re welcome to it, but you deserve no further reply. Go away.
I am always sussed out when I see xxxx.xxxx.xxxx unless it’s lemmy.ml
That problem is, it’s not up to us when to build these rails and where.
The states need their car registration $$$
Sadly the car registration and other car related taxes, don’t even cover the costs of maintaining car infrastructure. So it’s no even a good reason.
In California, any time I have seen an Amtrack train going the same direction as me on the freeway, I was passing it, never the other way around.
America’s rail is almost all low-speed or higher-speed (125-150 mph, but much lower average speeds)
For comparison, China has built ~20,000 miles of HSR, much of which goes up to 220, some lines averaging 200 mph.
That would be because Amtrak is not a high-speed rail. They barely maintain their rails and so they have to go quite slowly.
Amtrak only owns tracks in the DC area. Everywhere else, the rails are all privatized
Joke’s on you, I have a humiliation kink
Public transportation in the US is abysmal.
Let me present: the new constructed high speed rail line Wendlingen-Ulm, next to Autobahn 8.
With up to 200km/h (125mp/h for you american folk) with regular trains and even more with our high speed trains!
You can run so many cancelled trains on that bad boy
