Mfw I recognize a problem in society by it’s symptom, but take action neither to ameliorate the problem or symptom even when it’s considered socially unacceptable not to
You agreed to a wage when you took the position and make the choice to maintain that with your employer, but its everyone else’s responsibility to fix it?
No, there is a social expectation that customers will tip. This varies by location. The social expectation is baked into the exploitative labor relationship. A person who knows this and doesn’t tip is acting anti socially.
It is not a protest against the oppression servers experience in their exploitative jobs to deny them part of their pay. That just hurts the server.
It is a callous, self centered, entitled statement that tells everyone else you don’t believe the expectations apply to you.
If you want to make a change in the social expectation, consider organizing with service workers in your area.
So I have to organize for them, they are incapable of doing so themselves? I already tip, which is why I know the cost of the practice, and the social stigmas not giving in to servers begging comes with.
My experience is servers like the status quo because they make 2-3x what the kitchen staff does. What incentives do servers have to support the kitchen staff they’ve sold out in fighting for better wages? Servers do not do any more work than the people actually making the food.
The social expectation is baked into the exploitative labor relationship.
I agree, servers have been on the abusing side of the exploitative labor relationship. They choose to take less wages so they can expect the customer to pay more or bear the social stigma, giving the employer more savings and themselves significantly more than the kitchen staff. In the end both parties expect to exploit the customer.
I suggested your activism to end the tipping system would be more effective if you organized with service workers, not for them. Of course, often there are many more pressing matters than taking on the myriad changes even one place has to go through to remove tipping, so you will likely find that no one is interested in doing a complex, difficult project just so you won’t have to tip and may in fact be hostile to you unless you’re very careful in how you present yourself.
You know, because you selfishly view performing your duties under the flawed labor relation you take part in as optional.
E: I completely forgot to pound this point home and it’s a prime example: if you don’t tip, you’re a bad person!
Lol just dripping with entitlement. I do tip, which is why I know the associated cost and how much more expensive servers have successfully guilted us into making our restaurant experience in the u.s.
I’m finishing up a vacation to an island nation in South East Asia and this afternoon I had some amazing ramen and thought of you. I walked in and ordered from a kiosk and then a few minutes later grabbed my food from the order drop, made by employees who earn a living wage and do not expect tips for doing their job as a means to try to earn more than the kitchen staff. The food was amazing and despite the markup of being on an island was cheaper than I could get it from the restaurant in my home town after the server tax.
Weird how nowhere in that engagement did i have some entitled person expecting a generous markup on my meal for bringing it and maintaining my drink. In fact thats been the experience this entire trip, even in instances where there was a server involved. Pleasant people who earn a living wage and do their work just like the rest of the staff in the restaurant. When it was appropriate we left more, the difference is it was a reward for excellent service, not just showing up.
So wait, the person who correctly recognizes your antisocial behavior and your server who expects you to uphold the expectations of your dining interactions are the entitled people here, not you who feels like you shouldn’t have to even though you know it’s expected and that you’re only harming your server when you don’t?
You are describing feeling entitled to receive the servers (and kitchen, some places split tips) labor for a lower rate and justifying it because you don’t feel like the social system that labor relation exists under is right.
It’s not right, but that doesn’t make you not a bad person when you don’t tip.
To go a little further: you describe servers doing all these things themselves, guilting everyone into paying more, expecting (all by themselves. as if everyone you dine with doesn’t expect you to tip too!) to be paid for their work. At no point do you place blame with or advocate taking action against the forces and structures that uphold tipped wages as a system. If you had an analysis that didn’t hinge on blaming the server for wanting to be paid I could look past it, but it’s germane here as another example of your entitlement to their work for a reduced rate.
Out of curiosity, what was this south Asian island nation?
It’s actually the other way around. Only a bad person would endorse and support a system of inconsistent unreliable wages. A system where one asshole customer can just fuck over their server. Why would you support such a harmful system? Because it benefits you, the customer? That doesn’t sound too ethical to me…
No, tipping encourages a system where servers don’t have consistent/reliable pay. They have no way of knowing what their income will be at the end of the month. And that makes things like paying rent tricky.
Part of my goal is making them quit and find a better job with a consistent income, even if outside the industry. This would positively benefit their life and the industry as a whole. This is what will end tipping and what anyone who disagrees with tipping culture should do.
If you’re serious about this: consider verbally and physically abusing your servers, lying about them to management, applying the methods outlined in the CIAs manual for disruption of organizations and even stoicastic violence.
Surely you could be doing more to hurt your server enough that they find a job you approve of!
For anyone reading this comment: if you don’t tip you’re a bad person exhibit a.
My goal is not to make all employees quit any and every job. I only want those unhappy with unreliable tip based income to quit, and I want them to communicate that with their employer.
If someone is happy with optional tipping, then I don’t want them to quit. But such a person should have no real problem with a $0 tip since they support optional tipping, right?
It must be so difficult to make the decision wether or not to tip then, since you need to extensively vet your server before even ordering.
That is of course unless you don’t make sure your server is unhappy with their tip based income and is communicating that with their employer before you don’t tip and are simply looking for a cover for your antisocial behavior.
Complaining about tipping culture and then giving money to the people who perpetuate it while shafting employees making $2.15/hr in an effort to end it is truly insane.
Do you think by not tipping you are improving the lives of those who depend on tips for their income? Do you think that by not tipping you are hurting the employer/ending tipping culture?
Lol what was the point of asking then? I thought at least you’d attempt to justify why you disagree with me if you did. But if you can’t justify your position, I guess I get it.
If you don’t tip you’re a bad person.
Tipping is a courtesy, not a requirement. It’s not my fault service staff is underpaid nor is it my responsibility to make up for that.
Mfw I recognize a problem in society by it’s symptom, but take action neither to ameliorate the problem or symptom even when it’s considered socially unacceptable not to
You agreed to a wage when you took the position and make the choice to maintain that with your employer, but its everyone else’s responsibility to fix it?
No, there is a social expectation that customers will tip. This varies by location. The social expectation is baked into the exploitative labor relationship. A person who knows this and doesn’t tip is acting anti socially.
It is not a protest against the oppression servers experience in their exploitative jobs to deny them part of their pay. That just hurts the server.
It is a callous, self centered, entitled statement that tells everyone else you don’t believe the expectations apply to you.
If you want to make a change in the social expectation, consider organizing with service workers in your area.
So I have to organize for them, they are incapable of doing so themselves? I already tip, which is why I know the cost of the practice, and the social stigmas not giving in to servers begging comes with.
My experience is servers like the status quo because they make 2-3x what the kitchen staff does. What incentives do servers have to support the kitchen staff they’ve sold out in fighting for better wages? Servers do not do any more work than the people actually making the food.
I agree, servers have been on the abusing side of the exploitative labor relationship. They choose to take less wages so they can expect the customer to pay more or bear the social stigma, giving the employer more savings and themselves significantly more than the kitchen staff. In the end both parties expect to exploit the customer.
I suggested your activism to end the tipping system would be more effective if you organized with service workers, not for them. Of course, often there are many more pressing matters than taking on the myriad changes even one place has to go through to remove tipping, so you will likely find that no one is interested in doing a complex, difficult project just so you won’t have to tip and may in fact be hostile to you unless you’re very careful in how you present yourself.
You know, because you selfishly view performing your duties under the flawed labor relation you take part in as optional.
E: I completely forgot to pound this point home and it’s a prime example: if you don’t tip, you’re a bad person!
Lol just dripping with entitlement. I do tip, which is why I know the associated cost and how much more expensive servers have successfully guilted us into making our restaurant experience in the u.s.
I’m finishing up a vacation to an island nation in South East Asia and this afternoon I had some amazing ramen and thought of you. I walked in and ordered from a kiosk and then a few minutes later grabbed my food from the order drop, made by employees who earn a living wage and do not expect tips for doing their job as a means to try to earn more than the kitchen staff. The food was amazing and despite the markup of being on an island was cheaper than I could get it from the restaurant in my home town after the server tax.
Weird how nowhere in that engagement did i have some entitled person expecting a generous markup on my meal for bringing it and maintaining my drink. In fact thats been the experience this entire trip, even in instances where there was a server involved. Pleasant people who earn a living wage and do their work just like the rest of the staff in the restaurant. When it was appropriate we left more, the difference is it was a reward for excellent service, not just showing up.
So wait, the person who correctly recognizes your antisocial behavior and your server who expects you to uphold the expectations of your dining interactions are the entitled people here, not you who feels like you shouldn’t have to even though you know it’s expected and that you’re only harming your server when you don’t?
You are describing feeling entitled to receive the servers (and kitchen, some places split tips) labor for a lower rate and justifying it because you don’t feel like the social system that labor relation exists under is right.
It’s not right, but that doesn’t make you not a bad person when you don’t tip.
To go a little further: you describe servers doing all these things themselves, guilting everyone into paying more, expecting (all by themselves. as if everyone you dine with doesn’t expect you to tip too!) to be paid for their work. At no point do you place blame with or advocate taking action against the forces and structures that uphold tipped wages as a system. If you had an analysis that didn’t hinge on blaming the server for wanting to be paid I could look past it, but it’s germane here as another example of your entitlement to their work for a reduced rate.
Out of curiosity, what was this south Asian island nation?
It’s actually the other way around. Only a bad person would endorse and support a system of inconsistent unreliable wages. A system where one asshole customer can just fuck over their server. Why would you support such a harmful system? Because it benefits you, the customer? That doesn’t sound too ethical to me…
Tipping only endorses helping your server live.
You made all that other shit up.
No, tipping encourages a system where servers don’t have consistent/reliable pay. They have no way of knowing what their income will be at the end of the month. And that makes things like paying rent tricky.
When not tipping doesn’t change anything, choosing not to tip doesn’t have any effect other than harming your server.
Part of my goal is making them quit and find a better job with a consistent income, even if outside the industry. This would positively benefit their life and the industry as a whole. This is what will end tipping and what anyone who disagrees with tipping culture should do.
If you’re serious about this: consider verbally and physically abusing your servers, lying about them to management, applying the methods outlined in the CIAs manual for disruption of organizations and even stoicastic violence.
Surely you could be doing more to hurt your server enough that they find a job you approve of!
For anyone reading this comment: if you don’t tip you’re a bad person exhibit a.
My goal is not to make all employees quit any and every job. I only want those unhappy with unreliable tip based income to quit, and I want them to communicate that with their employer.
If someone is happy with optional tipping, then I don’t want them to quit. But such a person should have no real problem with a $0 tip since they support optional tipping, right?
It must be so difficult to make the decision wether or not to tip then, since you need to extensively vet your server before even ordering.
That is of course unless you don’t make sure your server is unhappy with their tip based income and is communicating that with their employer before you don’t tip and are simply looking for a cover for your antisocial behavior.
Only bad people don’t tip: exhibit b
Doctoring up your selfish position is one thing but to make it sound like a service is insane.
Agreeing to work for tips and then complaining about is truly insane.
Complaining about tipping culture and then giving money to the people who perpetuate it while shafting employees making $2.15/hr in an effort to end it is truly insane.
Do you think by not tipping you are improving the lives of those who depend on tips for their income? Do you think that by not tipping you are hurting the employer/ending tipping culture?
Yes, I do think so 100% to both questions.
That is the most preposterous thing I’ve heard in quite some time. So you’re profoundly ignorant, unbelievably short sighted, or a troll.
Lol what was the point of asking then? I thought at least you’d attempt to justify why you disagree with me if you did. But if you can’t justify your position, I guess I get it.
If you don’t know why I disagree with you, then you haven’t actually read a single thing I’ve written. It is right there for you to read.
You haven’t written anything that supports your point, really.