I’ve noticed a lot of posts asking how we’re going to vote, and people coming in trying to shame people for not voting for Biden, or any candidate in the general election at all.
So I’m curious and, asking in good faith, want to know - what will make you stop voting for Biden?
But if it was Biden v trump, what action would he have to take for you to abstain from voting? I figured you wouldn’t vote for trump - I don’t think anybody on Hexbear will unless they’re going for accelerationism or are in a blue state.
I mean…it’s basically less evilism, as y’all like to call it.
Yes, I’m fully aware that Joe Biden not only didn’t stop the deportations along the border, but actually increased them. Yes, I’m fully aware that Joe Biden’s response to Israel is so weak as to literally alienate the entire Arab world against the U.S. (as if they weren’t reasonably already). And yes, I’m fully aware that Joe Biden is old af and really should be dead at this point. Every criticism you have of Joe Biden I’m likely to agree with.
But, for me (which is to say, this does not apply to everybody, only me), it’d be practically evil to not vote for Biden. These last few elections have basically been a “Did you stop beating your wife” kinda of situation with no room for pausing to unpack how fucked up it all is. So, I’ll answer yes, I did stop beating my wife, rather than say I’m continuing to harm the love of my life.
So, what would he have to do for me to abandon him? Well, a turn to the blatant authoritarianism of the Republicans would be a start. Abandoning his clear adherence to the rule of law to get shit done, would also do it. Basically, the more he becomes a modern Republican, the less likely I’ll vote for him, In other words, the more the loaded question becomes a baseless assertion, from asking “Did you stop” to just saying “You’re definitely beating your wife and now you’ll rot in jail forever”, makes it far less likely I’ll see any difference between them.
For the record, bathing in Palestinian blood would definitely be a deal breaker.
In general? Like, if Joe Biden became the Dark Brandon meme over night and started drone striking US Senators that didn’t approve of climate change legislation and started packing SCOTUS with radical leftists you’d be against that?
Like…packing the Supreme Court with…the literal Marxists? Fuck no, I wouldn’t be against that. God, to watch a legal Marxist challenge Clarence Thomas on the fake, ephemeral historical analysis of originalism would be breathtakingly beautiful in its absolute devastation.
Okay, that’d be bad.
You’re thinking way too small.
Maybe arrest Thomas for his blatant corruption. Or after Dobbs, order the federal government to ignore it and tell states that if they pass anti-abortion laws you’ll cut off federal funding. Can’t find anyone to do these objectively good things? Saturday Night Massacre the bureaucracy until you do.
you think the lives of a handful of the shittiest people on earth isn’t a price to pay for averting the millions of deaths caused by those same shitty people blocking meaningful actions to undo the damage humanity has done to our environment?
Sweetie, it’s not just their lives we’d be sacrificing, it’d be the nooooorms and the noooooance! We need to vooote climate regulations in, not use the same means of securing political goals we use every time a Latin American president nationalizes a natural resource!
lmao I thought you were OP replying for a hot second, you gotta spell it sweaty next time
Rule of law in America is only the rule of the bourgeoisie. Where is the rule of law in his response to Israel? Oh right, it’s the rule of Israel’s law.
Do you think I disagree? Israel is able to flaunt international law because of Joe Biden’s non-response and the support of the United States in general. And it is Israel who is directly morally responsible for the death of Palestinians (and probably Raytheon/Lockheed Martin). Ultimately, Joe Biden is tangential to the fact that the Israeli government is misanthropic and murderous. Do you think a strong condemnation would stop Israel from invading Palestine? Because that’s more foolish than anything I believe.
I think that Israel is only able to exist thanks to its benefactors giving it billions in military aid year after year, so there’s no sense acting like Biden’s hands are tied when they are firing rockets made by America’s MIC.
Sanctioning Israel, while imminently deserved, would be political suicide in the U.S. It would be functionally indistinct from just literally slapping Netanyahu and calling him a bitch.
Literally slapping Bibi and calling him a bitch would a.) Be very funny and b.) Possibly create an off ramp for the brewing Israeli civil war.
Sanctioning Israel would be rad, but it would also fracture the western economy. I’m not saying sanction Israel, I’m saying just turn off the endless spout of money going from the US to Israel in aid and instantly-forgiven “loans” and so on.
But beyond that, I think it would be good to not let neoliberals dictate to you what is viable. If this dude had some epiphany and became an anti-Israel politician, he’d take the stance supported by the clear majority of the country. If he loses re-election, who cares? He can demonstrate how powerful the zionist character assassination machine is and retire both rich and much more beloved than he will be here in our reality.
You can’t just wait for the establishment to give you permission to make transgressions, you need to make them and keep making them until you have established new norms. Of course, Biden is the establishment, so he is part of the problem rather than part of the solution, which is why I’ll vote for PSL or whatever.
In your own comment, you already named Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, the AMERICAN companies that are directly enabling the genocide.
who was asking for a strong condemnation, we were asking for them to stop giving Israel weapons! The power is literally in the US’ hands!
Biden didn’t give a “non response”. he’s not ambivalent and ignoring the situation. He SUPPORTS Israel, he will not even entertain the idea of a ceasefire. He is taking an active role in genocide.
when she used the safe word
So Biden denying the Palestinian death toll doesn’t count as “bathing in Palestinian blood” cause where I’m from that’s what that looks like
But that’s just a metaphor. And it’s like saying not mentioning the abduction of women on Native American reservations is living in their house. It’s only convincing if you already agree with it. Nor does it actually prove anything. It’s good for an applause light, but you’re not really making an argument, you’re merely equating two disparate things. I don’t agree with the definition, so I don’t buy that he’s bathing in any blood.
Furthermore, denying the Palestinian death toll makes sense to me in some circumstances. Relying on Israeli counts of it makes no sense in any circumstance.
It’s not a metaphor, (also your example is called an omission not a metaphor) and he didnt do any omission his admin straight up said there are no red lines in terms of how far Israel’s military campaign can go and denying death tolls adds to that approval and complicity, that’s called genocide assistance and denial
FUTHERMORE he didn’t deny the Israeli counts (whatever the fuck that means) he denied the numbers coming from the Gazan Health Ministry which is UN affiliated and internationally recognized as reliable
So if he were to actually start being effective?
I read your entire response and appreciate your answer. I’m glad we can agree that Biden is at least shitty.
I also appreciate you taking personal ownership of your moral reasoning behind your vote. But I think the personal connections you have to your vote may be missing some broader context.
This stuck out to me:
I feel that ‘authoritarianism’ as a term feels reductive. It’s a term used to describe a politician’s behavior instead of specific actions that we can assign morality. Providing weapons in another country or withholding support during a domestic crisis are more specific and can better crystallize what is wrong with a government or politician. In media narratives, ‘authoritarian’ is used to criticize without looking at the material changes that happen.
I think if Biden used the full force of his legal executive powers to do things to undo the harm of trump’s presidency, that would be considered authoritarian and would be an unprecedented display of political power. I also think that would be a welcome and appropriate action to take.
You also used the word ‘blatant’ and I thought that was significant too. Trump was blatant with a lot of the shit he pulled in office. Appointing people with awful track records and making speeches that threatened people were blatant. However, ‘blatant’ is subjective.
What was blatant to you with trump was a reality a lot of people experienced before 2016 and after 2021. For me, what changed was aesthetics. Biden didn’t have to say anything to keep the cages open. He didn’t have to do much to let Roe v Wade get overturned. He could say he condemned the decision and then not have to do anything because that would be authoritarian. He felt no strategic need to undo trump’s actions and so he didn’t. He’s just not saying the quiet part out loud.
It’s definitely a fucked up situation we’re in, but Biden won’t save it, nor will the party who props him up even now.
Also, the adherence to the rule of law seems like a shaky standard given the people in charge of making the laws. Shakier considering how often legal loopholes come out of the woodwork to prevent meaningful policies from happening, like the parliamentarian. I’d only be okay with the rule of law if US law was in any way fair or just.
If following the rule brought you to this, of what use is the rule?
The rules are pointing us off a cliff. They have no intrinsic value.