don’t forget the whole tipping before you even get what you ordered thing. all you did was take my order.
asdf
Why would you tip for coffee? It’s fast food.
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Sure, if I am staying in the establishment for a bit, they’re serving me repeatedly by themselves in glassware, offering samples of drinks I haven’t tried, making suggestions, etc. I’ll typically tip $1–2 per drink for that.
If a barista served me over a couple hours with nice mugs by themselves, I’d probably tip as well. But if I’m waiting in line, then give an order to one person, and have my name called out later by a different person who serves me a drink in a disposable cup, that’s not like bartending. That’s the model of Chipotle and Subway, and nobody tips at Chipotle or Subway.
That’s a lot of caveats. So you’re saying there are situations where you’ll walk into a bar, buy a beer, and not tip?
Absolutely. If I happen to order a beer at the fair I’m going to tomorrow, I’m not going to tip because that’s beer to go. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone tip in that circumstance.
That’s not a bartender/bar scenario, we are way afield of that. If you step into a bar and order a drink, do you ever not tip (aside from the obvious such as really really rude/nasty service)?
No I don’t, why the fuck would I tip someone for handing me a beer?
I think that was exactly their point.
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I’m in the US and I don’t tip a bartender for popping a bottle cap. If I’m sitting at the bar and they are making conversation and I’m getting mixed drinks then sure I will tip. But in no way is that similar to a Starbucks experience. Coffee shops operate no different than McDonald’s, do you tip at McDonald’s? No, so why would I tip at a Coffee shop?
Is there a tipping culture surrounding fast food?
Is there a tipping culture surrounding bars?
There’s your answer.
They’ll just ignore you the next time if you tip like shit
Or in their case, not at all.
Nope. Price on the menu is the price I pay for a coffee. If you want more money, charge more money for the product.
Why would you tip for a coffee? You make me stand in line to order, stand against the wall to wait for my drink, and you want me to give you more than the $5 you’re already charging for a latte? It’s insane.
Don’t worry though, I don’t stiff the baristas. I make better lattes at home.
Some of us live in countries with a living minimum wage. But this tipping bullshit washes up on our shores anyway.
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it is objectively more messed up that employers aren’t paying enough that wages need to be subsidized with tips
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“stiffing people” is language that implies they are entitled to the tip, which they are not as it’s a tip. Expecting a tip is falling victim to the propaganda that enables employers to maintain low wages. By continuing to tip because “that’s what people do” you’re only further cementing this culture.
If more people refrained from tipping or tipping excessively when not appropriate, then employers would have to increase wages. That’s how to solve the problem.
When I tip, I tip 20%, but I’m not going to begin tipping at a grocery store or getting a coffee unless it’s a small, local establishment.
But most people don’t so your individual effort without any effort to bring more people on board is you pretending that you’re somehow hurting employers, which you aren’t.
Not getting a tip.
Not getting your order then…
Which is why I don’t order on these things. I hope they’re happy with $0 tip and $0 order because it’s not worth the hassle, the cold food, the wait, and the whining
Just thinking about all the times you’ve ate line cooks spit lmao
Cooks don’t care if FOH gets tipped. They typically get paid decently, and I’ve never worked a place that included BOH on tip pools or even tip outs, with the exception of bussers and runners at a couple places.
They aren’t risking their jobs and possible legal problems for something that doesn’t matter to them.
I’ve been a line cook, sous chef, and now chef for 15 years. I can tell you with absolute certainty you’re wrong.
$5 on a $30 meal is absolutely a tip. A pretty decent one at that (roughly 15%).
I tend to over-tip (20%+), but we also don’t go out all that often and I am only tipping wait-staff and barbers. None of this other new bullshit about take-out orders or anything like that.
Can you explain tipping a barber? A barber preforms a service that requires almost no one-time use products to complete and the service is done entirely, or almost entirely, by a single person. When barbers charge $15+ for a hair cut why should you be tipping them on top of that? The cost includes any work being done.
The main argument for tipping wait-staff is that the service they provide is additional from the kitchen (kitchen makes the food), and purely provides a service that is separate to the food (hence why I would argue tipping wait-staff is something that could be acceptable).
Barbers do have costs in performing their work but that can be reflected in the price, any tips to that is the same as tipping lawn care providers, car wash employees, etc.
Tipping the barber- meh. My wife tipping the stylist on a $300+ bill- insane. “But it’s a cut and color. It’s actually pretty standard”.
I’ve stopped fighting it, but that absolutely crushes my soul every time I see it on the credit card.
This actually seems a more appropriate time to tip? I’m a guy, I have a simple haircut. There are probably a dozen people on my block that that could do a suitable job giving me a haircut and for an actual barber I’m usually not more than 10-15 minutes in the chair. I go in, I say the same thing just about every time like you’re ordering a cheeseburger at McDonald’s, and my cut is about that level of difficulty.
My wife getting a $200-$300 cut and color is a half day long activity, at the least. She goes to someone who actually went to school for this shit, and then serves as a de facto entertainer for hours. Unlike my barber, who can turn over his chair every 10-15 minutes, the stylist doing my wife’s hair is spending 3-5 hours with her, and they approach the thing almost more like a collaborative project.
Where the heck are you still getting haircuts for $15? I want to go to there.
I’m pretty sure you are overthinking this.
P.S. You sound like a guy with a bad haircut
LMAO
If the barber charges $15, I’d give them a 20 and call it a day. I am not going to be a cheap piece of shit for $5 if the barber does a good job. It isn’t just the hair cutting - it is typically a whole experience. They chat you up, they sometimes shave your face. It has been the tradition that barbers keep their prices low with the expectation that the tip itself brings their dollars-per-hour to a reasonable level. I’m not going to break that tradition if I went to one. But then again, I’ve been cutting my own hair for some 15 years now.
Also the way many barbershops are structured is that the barber rents out a chair at the shop. Not sure if they pay the shop per customer or by the hour, but it could very well be that the shop makes $5 out of that $15, so then only $10 goes to the barber plus whatever tip you give them. I do not claim to know the ins-and-outs of their cost structure so my numbers could be off, but I do know it is something like that.
Rounding out your cost to the nearest $5-10 can make sense. Especially when it’s an exact amount like $23 I’ll give them $25 because it’s just easier, but when you say tip the common amount of a tip is 15-25% would have you tip $3.50-5.75 on that $23 haircut. That’s more than I’ve ever tipped them because I’m already paying over $20 for something they completed in ~20 minutes without using anything that would cost them money (other than time).
Paying for the experience is not what I’m paying for, I’m paying for the service. Going to the movies I don’t tip the concession stand for providing me with the “movie experience” when they give me popcorn. And anytime they do extra stuff like shaving my face it costs extra. The haircut costs X amount and anything extra adds Y amount, it’s a service the same as all other services.
You are correct in that typically hair salons and barber shops will rent out the chairs to barbers, but this is done in 1 of 2 ways typically, the barber pays per month and they keep all of the money they make, or they pay a portion of every customer. Why does this matter to you as the consumer? If the barber isn’t making enough, the prices can increase. My local barbershop increased prices 2 times in the last 4 years. If they’re supposed to make their money on tips why is this? Their costs to run the business haven’t gone up because they don’t use anything to perform the service, so it must be to pay the barbers a better amount. Something that wouldn’t happen if it’s “meant to be a tipped position”.
If the barber charged $20 or the barber charged $15 with some kind of “expected” tip, fundamentally what is the difference?
Hair cutting is one of those professions, which traditionally (at least in the US) some form of tip is expected for a good job. That extra couple of bucks that one gives for a good haircut is well worth it to build that relationship. They might squeeze you in on an otherwise busy day if you have an interview the next day, or something along those lines. You can claim all you want that you aren’t paying for an experience, but the reality is that you are. The cut itself is only part of the whole process. The vibe of the shop - the music they might play or the game they are playing on the TV. Or maybe the opposite. Maybe it is a quiet place and you can go in there and relax in silence for a bit. It is all part of the experience. When I used to actually get my hair cut, it was probably once a month. That extra $5 means nothing to me in the end. If $60/year worth of tips is too much for some, then they might want to look at cutting their own hair.
I don’t understand why people are arguing this point. If collectively barbers said they are raising their rates but tipping isn’t needed anymore, than that would be great, but that’s not reality. Until that happens, I absolutely would tip a good barber and not think twice about it.
It doesn’t make sense to you because you’re reasonable and half the people in this thread are cheap and selfish. I’ve seen people say they don’t even tip their bartenders.
I don’t understand how it’s “cheap and selfish” to go to a bar, see that it says $7 for a drink on the menu, and choose to pay $7 for the drink that says $7 on the menu.
As a customer, it’s not my responsibility to know nor care how much the employee of the business makes. I see a sticker price for the thing I want, and I pay that price. What’s “selfish and cheap” about that?
It’s bizarre isn’t it?
I bet the same people who don’t want to tip, are also the same type of people screaming for $15/hr pay for no-skill jobs. Yet they don’t want to pay people who have learned a marketable skill their fair share?! They can complain about tipping till the cows come home, but if the system in place now mean their income is based on getting a certain amount from tips, then arguing about tipping these people means you’re a cheapskate.
Tipping barbers is standard.
Baristas and the person swiping your credit card for a takeout order is not. Nor the asshole selling you an overpriced T-shirt at a concert. Not your vet or your pet care place.
I tip barbers, but I often wonder why tipping is a thing for barbers? Are they paid less than minimum wage? Since they have to have a license, I’m assuming they are not paid beneath minimum wage.
A lot of the time barbers/stylists are individual businesses renting a chair. They have no minimum wage
Yes, and my question is why is it standard, why should it be done? Just because something is standard doesn’t mean it makes sense, could you explain why it should be done?
Most barbers are independent and have to rent a booth from another business. The business usually sets the prices. So, they can’t just adjust their prices accordingly. Also, out of the $20 you pay them, they have to pay a portion back to cover booth rent, buy materials, pay for healthcare, etc. Tip is often their actual wage after costs.
Sounds like they should unionize.
Go help them then
Go help them then
You first.
Is that only barbers’ problem? Why only barbers? What about cosmetic salons or i dunno repair guys etc ?
People tip at salons too
I meant it in context of OP. > Barbers can’t change their prices etc
Is a tip option on take-out orders all that new?
Historically they have always been the same receipt as regular dine-in orders, so the area to write a tip has probably always been there. If I have to go there and pick it up, I sure as hell ain’t tipping. I mean unless it is some huge order or maybe some last-minute deal. Something out of the ordinary.
Maybe we all should stop going to restaurants. Seriously, do we really need it? We can cook at home or buy refrigerated meals in the supermarket if someone really can’t cook… Just until the industry collapses. Maybe what rises from its ashes will value the workers more…
But probably won’t.
What I really don’t understand is Australian restaurants adding a tip area on the bills.
Seriously, fuck off. Your already gouing us on the price. I’m never supporting or participating in a tipping system in this country ever.
One of the unsung reasons that Americans eat so much fast food is because, somehow, the tip crap didn’t get into that business model (yet), so if you have $8 for lunch and the McValue Meal costs $7.50 you have lunch money and change coming back, end of story. No tipping, no percentages, no shaming, just buy your food like a regular item and go. It would seem like every place outside the US acts like that, so no wonder we love McDonald’s and shit.
Knock wood and touch brass for luck that it stays that way. I am not tipping at Taco Bell.
I… I think I just managed to actually quit nicotine over this shit. The vape shop suddenly had a tip setup starting in 2020, and the clerk had to push some sort of button to get past me putting “no tip” into the screen, because absolutely not. Now I’ve stopped, and that’s one less tip screen in my face.
I’ve been following inflation and wage growth closely, too. Wage growth has leveled off, inflation is slowly, begrudgingly coming down. Cash money says these tip screens aren’t going away, no matter what.
I once was at a bar the night before new years eve. The bar was packed. I’m usually a pretty heavy tipper at the bar, but this night, the bartender taped signs to their back that said, “doesn’t anyone know what 20% is?”
I closed my tab, tipped 0, and told the manager I stiffed their staff upstairs because they were being pricks.
The way to get better tips isn’t being a dick about it
With that attitude, don’t even worry about it. You won’t need to count what I’ll be giving you.
There are food places here in the UK where they dont expect a tip. You know how we get around it? We pay them minimum wage at least. It still aint great but its better than how America treats people.
My tenants don’t tip me, so I don’t tip at restaurants. Simple as.
Tips are for going beyond what is expected of your job. You did more than the bare minimum, and beyond what you were paid for.
The door dash driver that dropped my unwrapped utensils on the ground next to my order, and placed the bag next to my door so I’d smack it when I went outside to grab it - he does not get a tip.
The Uber eats lady that drove past my front door and made me meet her a 1/4 mile down the road - she doesn’t get a tip either.
If your job is to sit behind the counter, and take or make my order, I’m sorry there isn’t much opportunity for you to go above and beyond. But that’s not my problem
got it. so a dollar then
If you don’t tip you’re a bad person.
Tipping is a courtesy, not a requirement. It’s not my fault service staff is underpaid nor is it my responsibility to make up for that.
Mfw I recognize a problem in society by it’s symptom, but take action neither to ameliorate the problem or symptom even when it’s considered socially unacceptable not to
You agreed to a wage when you took the position and make the choice to maintain that with your employer, but its everyone else’s responsibility to fix it?
No, there is a social expectation that customers will tip. This varies by location. The social expectation is baked into the exploitative labor relationship. A person who knows this and doesn’t tip is acting anti socially.
It is not a protest against the oppression servers experience in their exploitative jobs to deny them part of their pay. That just hurts the server.
It is a callous, self centered, entitled statement that tells everyone else you don’t believe the expectations apply to you.
If you want to make a change in the social expectation, consider organizing with service workers in your area.
So I have to organize for them, they are incapable of doing so themselves? I already tip, which is why I know the cost of the practice, and the social stigmas not giving in to servers begging comes with.
My experience is servers like the status quo because they make 2-3x what the kitchen staff does. What incentives do servers have to support the kitchen staff they’ve sold out in fighting for better wages? Servers do not do any more work than the people actually making the food.
The social expectation is baked into the exploitative labor relationship.
I agree, servers have been on the abusing side of the exploitative labor relationship. They choose to take less wages so they can expect the customer to pay more or bear the social stigma, giving the employer more savings and themselves significantly more than the kitchen staff. In the end both parties expect to exploit the customer.
I suggested your activism to end the tipping system would be more effective if you organized with service workers, not for them. Of course, often there are many more pressing matters than taking on the myriad changes even one place has to go through to remove tipping, so you will likely find that no one is interested in doing a complex, difficult project just so you won’t have to tip and may in fact be hostile to you unless you’re very careful in how you present yourself.
You know, because you selfishly view performing your duties under the flawed labor relation you take part in as optional.
E: I completely forgot to pound this point home and it’s a prime example: if you don’t tip, you’re a bad person!
Lol just dripping with entitlement. I do tip, which is why I know the associated cost and how much more expensive servers have successfully guilted us into making our restaurant experience in the u.s.
I’m finishing up a vacation to an island nation in South East Asia and this afternoon I had some amazing ramen and thought of you. I walked in and ordered from a kiosk and then a few minutes later grabbed my food from the order drop, made by employees who earn a living wage and do not expect tips for doing their job as a means to try to earn more than the kitchen staff. The food was amazing and despite the markup of being on an island was cheaper than I could get it from the restaurant in my home town after the server tax.
Weird how nowhere in that engagement did i have some entitled person expecting a generous markup on my meal for bringing it and maintaining my drink. In fact thats been the experience this entire trip, even in instances where there was a server involved. Pleasant people who earn a living wage and do their work just like the rest of the staff in the restaurant. When it was appropriate we left more, the difference is it was a reward for excellent service, not just showing up.
It’s actually the other way around. Only a bad person would endorse and support a system of inconsistent unreliable wages. A system where one asshole customer can just fuck over their server. Why would you support such a harmful system? Because it benefits you, the customer? That doesn’t sound too ethical to me…
Tipping only endorses helping your server live.
You made all that other shit up.
No, tipping encourages a system where servers don’t have consistent/reliable pay. They have no way of knowing what their income will be at the end of the month. And that makes things like paying rent tricky.
When not tipping doesn’t change anything, choosing not to tip doesn’t have any effect other than harming your server.
Part of my goal is making them quit and find a better job with a consistent income, even if outside the industry. This would positively benefit their life and the industry as a whole. This is what will end tipping and what anyone who disagrees with tipping culture should do.
part of my goal is making them quit and find a better job with a consistent income
Doctoring up your selfish position is one thing but to make it sound like a service is insane.
Agreeing to work for tips and then complaining about is truly insane.
If you’re serious about this: consider verbally and physically abusing your servers, lying about them to management, applying the methods outlined in the CIAs manual for disruption of organizations and even stoicastic violence.
Surely you could be doing more to hurt your server enough that they find a job you approve of!
For anyone reading this comment: if you don’t tip you’re a bad person exhibit a.
My goal is not to make all employees quit any and every job. I only want those unhappy with unreliable tip based income to quit, and I want them to communicate that with their employer.
If someone is happy with optional tipping, then I don’t want them to quit. But such a person should have no real problem with a $0 tip since they support optional tipping, right?
Do you think by not tipping you are improving the lives of those who depend on tips for their income? Do you think that by not tipping you are hurting the employer/ending tipping culture?
Yes, I do think so 100% to both questions.
That is the most preposterous thing I’ve heard in quite some time. So you’re profoundly ignorant, unbelievably short sighted, or a troll.
Lol what was the point of asking then? I thought at least you’d attempt to justify why you disagree with me if you did. But if you can’t justify your position, I guess I get it.
If you don’t know why I disagree with you, then you haven’t actually read a single thing I’ve written. It is right there for you to read.
You haven’t written anything that supports your point, really.
I remember the days when tipping was just making sure that the person who did a favor for you that their job said they didn’t have to do got some benefit/income out of doing it, as a thanks for that favor.
Tipping is a way to take any tension between the employee and the business owner, and between the customer and the business owner, and make it between the employee and the customer.
Exactly. Tipping is fundamentally unethical for all parties involved.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s unethical on the server’s part.
Honestly I don’t think it’s inherently unethical to engage in tip culture as a customer either. That would basically mean never eating out, for Americans.
It’s definitely unethical as a business owner.
The business owner didn’t even play a direct part in any of this. They just put up a job posting for a server for $x/hour and the server accepted the position knowing that was the wage.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all… but they have the least involvement in this whole thing compared to the server and customer.
The business owner didn’t even play a direct part in any of this.
Yeah they just make more money because the server and the employer made an agreement whereby the server takes less from the employer and expects more from the customer in return.
Totally not involved at all… just how they want you to think of the situation.
Business owners will do whatever make more money. If a server was willing to volunteer and work for free, or worse pay the business owner $5/h to work there, the business owner would happily take that deal too.
I’ve been very clear the entire time that the business owner is not acting ethically. But they will continue to act like that unless we force them to change.
So it’s up to the server to look out for their interests and demand a better wage. Its not “keep tipping servers more and more because its the path of least resistance to prosperity for servers”.
Lots of jobs don’t pay enough in this country, but for some reason servers believe it entitles them to a donation. This is the status quo servers fought for because it made them more money than most of the rest of the staff until now.
It’s definitely unethical as a business owner.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all…
So you agree, the unethical one is the business owner.
They are acting unethically, yes. But so is anyone else in support of a tip based system.
The owners do it by choice.
The servers do it out of necessity.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all… but they have the least involvement in this whole thing compared to the server and customer.
Mental gymnastics. They literally set the wage requiring the “whole thing” between the server and customer
They were only able to set that wage because of the server and the customer.
I’m not at all arguing the business owner is ethical. They are a piece of shit. The entire intention of my argument against tipping is to force the business owner to raise wages. Force. Not ask nicely and hope lol.
They were only able to set the wage so low because they have no conscience that tells them people should be able to afford both food and shelter.
I don’t disagree. But relying on them magically getting such a conscience is naive. I say we force them rather than hoping they do the right thing.
Business owners lobbied to get waiters to be paid below minimum wage. Using the argument that they got tips anyway.
They are the whole reason the tipping culture exists in the US.
And how were they able to make the argument ‘they get tips anyway’? My understanding is it arose during the great depression, and then they kept it going afterwards.
And now they wonder why customers start ordering through an app.
That seems all the more risky to not tip because they see the tip (or not) before the order, though, right?
Yes. On basically every app they can always see the tip or lack thereof before fulfilling the order (or for that matter even deciding whether or not to fulfill the order).
I don’t think so. I don’t use the apps much anymore but I recall being able to change tip after delivery.
The apps aren’t much cheaper most of the time and many of them charge their own fee before you even have to tip.
Doesn’t most apps also include “tip” option and delivery guys in US also expects a “tip”?
